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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 09:34am
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The Ailia or Drok monitors are ok but they are not "super accurate". The higher end ones like Victron and that level are more accurate.
DMM/DVOM = PITA.
I have 4, each has an opinion of it's own.
I even have a YR Battery tester which is .0000 accurate, so I have a better "feeling for that. Luckily I can use it to read a voltage & use it as a baseline against the DMM's.
You will find that getting an accurate 3.decimal place DMM is hard unless you fork out the cash.
Fluke 87 or 115, Uni-T 61E, Klein meters are known good.
This one and it's little brother the MM400 are quite well thought of, and quite well priced too.
https://www.amazon.com/Multimeter-Auto-Ranging-Klein-Tools-MM600/dp/B018CLOSTC/ref=ps dc_14244471_t2_B018EXZO8M
Hope it helps
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 10:41am
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Thanks Steve. What I'd really like is one of those clamp on meters so I can test amps easily too.
Today when I get back to the city I need to get one of those MeanWells hooked up for charging. I suppose I will attempt to adjust it under an indicated 14.6 to be safe. Do I just adjust it with the meter hooked up, no load?
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 12:43pm
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Iirc Ive been seeing things posted about LFP bats being best at their 80%, and I think that was the 'middle 80%'; ie, 10% off the bottom/10% off the top.
Does this mean charge 'em to 90%soc?
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 07:12pm - Edited by: paulz
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Pulled out one of my new MeanWell power supplies to recharge the Valence batteries after my cabin trip. I'm unclear on the 115 AC terminal inputs, marked L, N and FG. How does that correspond to my regular house AC, do I need to find which is the white and black?
They didn't come with instructions, probably expect you to know what you're doing.. The DC side I understand, + and -. 
Edit: I should add that this box is 115 or 230 AC, there is a switch to go between.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 08:02pm - Edited by: ICC
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Meanwell has a website that should have info relating to all their products.
L should be :"Line", the hot wire (black) in a 110-120 VAC power line. Sometimes called the unearthed conductor
N should be Neutral, the white or grey. Sometimes called the earthed conductor as it is expected that the white/grey will be connected to the earth (ground) at the service panel.
FG should be the green/bare ground. This is sometimes labeled PE on some Asian brands.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 08:08pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 Iirc Ive been seeing things posted about LFP bats being best at their 80%, and I think that was the 'middle 80%'; ie, 10% off the bottom/10% off the top. Does this mean charge 'em to 90%soc?
The lifetime (measured in complete discharge/discharge cycles) will be extended if the LFP (and other lithium chemistry batteries) are never fully charged or fully discharged. However, the LFP will still greatly outlast any lead-acid battery and still give you more energy over time, for the price.
I did oversize my bank of GBS brand prismatic LFP cells when I bought them. Several of us went together on a bulk purchase from China, a very good deal. After many months of tracking my use I limit the charge of my LFP bank of GBS cells to go no higher than approximately 75% maximum unless I have plans to do more than the usual amount of workshop use. In normal day to day use, they seldom drop to less than 45% charge. I expect them to last a long time. Of course, I could have saved money by buying smaller cells. Trade offs are a personal choice.
If I plan ahead properly, I boost the charge level to 95 to 100% a day or so ahead of planned extensive shop machinery use. I hate to run the generator unless that need coincides with the monthly maintenance run.
I do similar with my laptop. Normally when just being used at home I run the battery between 60 to 75% minimum/maximum with the on board battery minder software. When I have a planned trip I fully charge the day before.
I have hacked chargers for my cordless tools. The charge is stopped at 80% for normal use around home. When I know I am heading off someplace for remote work I do a full charge.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 08:11pm
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Thanks ICC. All I've found in the data sheet Steve mentioned earlier, don't see the AC part.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/260/scn-600-spec-1180098.pdf
Anyway, I think that's all I really needed to know. And I think my white wire is grounded at the panel. Is there a way I can verify/measure at the socket, or just pull the face plate off and look?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2021 09:17pm
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Quoting: paulz Is there a way I can verify/measure at the socket, or just pull the face plate off and look?
Not really. Fluke makes a couple of meters that do that test accurately. Expensive, as in $2K. It can be done with other quality multimeters along with a high current draw device like a hair dryer. However, that is best left to someone who is quite familiar with circuits and power.
DIY'ers look in the service panel and verify.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2021 01:00am
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Manuals & Docs for Meanwell PowerSupplies here:
https://www.meanwell.com/productSeries.aspx#
Attached is a PDF file on LFP Prismatic Cells. You may find it useful.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2021 12:27pm - Edited by: paulz
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I don't see mine (SCN series) anywhere on the MeanWell site, not in the discontinued or anywhere else. Maybe I'm missing it. Not important I don't think, my plan is to just hook up the AC, a DVM to the output and adjust the voltage to low 14s, and put it on the batteries. Just doing a few odds and ends first while I gather up the courage. That's a lot of amps for me. The Ailia meter is on these batteries so I should be able to watch the Vs and the As.
Quoting: ICC DIY'ers look in the service panel and verify.
Yes the white is grounded at my panel. And, as you know, the black goes to the smaller prong on the outlet and white to the larger. My house is a 70 year old mess, hopefully nothing got switched between the panel and outlet. And I don't know if the green is in place all the way. AC stuff I'm used to doesn't care about polarity, or the green. Apparently they are important on this thing. I may be giving myself a new hairdo in a few hours..
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2021 01:30pm - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: paulz white to the larger.
White to wide
Quoting: paulz My house is a 70 year old mess, hopefully nothing got switched between the panel and outlet. And I don't know if the green is in place all the way
Separate ground wires were introduced in the 60's. And by now nobody has a clue what is what in any home older than that.
You should have one of those little plugin ground/fault testers.
In the old family home that dated from the 1850's Dad marked all the outlets with glued on tags if they did not have a proper ground.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2021 01:37pm
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White to Wide
Oh, that makes just too much good sense.
My logic, such as it is, keeps trying to tell me the 'power wire' should have the biggest spade....I think I might remember your memory device there
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2021 01:59pm
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Wide to white...dang that's good.
Well I'm off and charging, after taking apart several outlets, buried in corners, to make sure it was right. Set the PS to 14.4, plugged it in and ran for cover.
Only charging 9 amps. Indicated voltage is 13.28, SOC 60% fwiw.
Is the battery impedance limited the amps?
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2021 08:27pm
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So, 6 hours later, voltage is 13.38, amps at 7. Should it get into the 14 volts ever? SOC has gone from 60 to 80.
I was expecting higher amps and faster charge, what could be the problem? I do have fairly small gauge wire from PS to battery, about 15ft. of 12g wire, and a 50' cord reel going to the PS from the garage. But none of it is hot.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2021 09:41pm
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8 hours on the charger today, it's at 14.50 volts, still charging at 2amps. So I guess that's pretty good.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2021 11:11am
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14.1 this morning after sitting off the charger overnight.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jan 2021 03:55pm
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Looks like my support crew went on strike for better working conditions.
Got back from the cabin yesterday, batteries at 13.1, 60%SOC. Charger started at 8 amps. Now they are at 14.5v and charging at .5 amps.
So I still don't get the 2nd stage of charging, do I leave it at a half amp now and hope the voltage stays at 14.5 or call it good?
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2021 10:20am
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Quoting: Steve_S DMM/DVOM = PITA. I have 4, each has an opinion of it's own.
I was messing around yesterday, big storm so avoiding the cabin. My home clamp on meter, which is supposed to read current in AC only, read a half amp when I clamped it around a battery charger wire. Hmm. Need to test again an inline ammeter.
Anyway, here is an inexpensive DC meter that just has a slot you slip over the wire. Scale a too high unfortunately for most of my needs.
https://www.opentip.com/Tool-Aid-24600-600-Amp-Alt-Gen-Start-Ind-p-3622248.html?ats=p roduct_landing
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evvargreen
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2021 10:30am
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I recently joined this group to find more about charging of Valence 40 amp hr batteries for offf grid cabin powered by generator only. Where did you order your usb port adaptor? What bms and charger do you recommend? I will be using mostly Dc in Cabin with 2 of these 40 amp hr batteries in bank . Thanks
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2021 02:15pm
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Hi. I made the USB adapter, instructions are in this thread somewhere. I don't use an external BMS, the circuitry inside the Valance has been enough protection for me. Have never charged off a generator but I think any 115AC LFP charger should work.
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evvargreen
Member
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2021 12:14pm
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I have 2 ...40 amp hr Valence Rt Series life po Batteries I wany to Power my 12 volt off Grid Cabin with. No Solar Its not an option because of location beneath old growth Cedars. I want to power with Honda 2100 Eu Generator. What Batery chrger would you recommend. The Honda only puts out 15 amps
so is a 15 amp charger a good match. I am looking at a Vicktrom I 22 BLue Smart. that charges at 15 amps.
I want to charge as quickly as possible without damaging Batteries.ANy other considerations I should be aware of?
Only chargig 12 Volt lo voltage led lighting and usb charges for small 200 sq ft cabin. Will have some duples outlets in kitchen that run off generator only and considering a dc 12 volt water pump 1 gal minute.
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evvargreen
Member
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2021 12:18pm
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Thank You
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2021 02:37pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Probably better to start your own thread but, to get you started:
How long are you typically there?
Are you already wired?
Do you have the gen yet?
By my calcs those 40ah LFP bats should give you 32ah usable apiece at only 80% drawdown (which is what Im using to calc to be conservative).
My place is 380ish sq.ft., once was 12vdc, then 12vdc and 120vac, now just 120vac. I morphed though the works and found my preference is inverting off the 12v battery bank to 120vac. This way my cabin wiring is one set and voltage, I plug in the little inv/gen for big draw stuff (microwave, toaster, coffee maker if I had one, tools....and the lights work too) and just off the little 300w pure sine wave inverter otherwise for my lights, fans, usb ports and cordless tool chargers.
Once I did it this way my electrical became way simpler.
I do have some few 12vdc things, and with an extra 12v battery I can power them up as needed. Fairly seldom and relatively low draw so that bat lasts a good long time.
But mostly my use is LED lights (each only draws about 1/2-1 amp and I typically use only 1, sometimes 2 for a bit, usb port recharge/too small a draw to worry about, cig-lighter socket or my small fan, etc./light draw. Kind of what uses you mention, all small draw even with a little 'overhead' of inefficiency IF you used an inverter (figure 85% efficient so add 15% to your device amps draw). Add up your average daily draw down and subtract from that 40ah gross/32ah net battery. Im thinking you could go a weekend on one bat and take it home to recharge.
To the bat charger question.
My Lil' Champion inv/gen is 1700w continuous/2000w peak. It runs a smart charger of 2/10/20amp just fine.
Charger 12v amps output is not the 120vac amps required for the charger to run. See the label on the charger.
Mine is plugged in and hooked up to my bat all the time so whenever the gen runs it charges too.
Looks like the LFP bats Ive been looking at can take C.5 with no trouble (That would be Charge at .5 of the ah rate; ie, for you with 40ah would be a 20ah charge).
I use no transfer 'switch', Im either plugged into the gen or into the inverter. Simple and no issues.
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