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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2018 10:01pm
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We are trying to decide what wood stove to get for our 288 sq ft cabin. About the smallest one I've seen says good for 900 sq ft (but made in China) and the good ones I like the looks of are for well over 1000 sq ft. Is there any problem putting in a bigger than needed stove? I have a pretty big 'dozed pile of Oak to feed whatever we wind up with.
Also, the cabin floor is vinyl over wood so I will need to put down something to put the stove on. Would 1 1/4" concrete squares do the trick? I see high-tech sounding hearth kits for sale but at over $500 that seems a bit out of line...
Thanks...
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2018 10:22pm
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I don't know much about wood stoves.
But I've read a lot of comments on here about them.
One complaint I've read is that if you purchase a small stove the firebox will not hold enough wood to get you through the night.
Getting up at every night at 3 am to a freezing cabin just to add more wood sounds like a nightmare to me.
Can a larger stove be used and damped down so it's not to hot? Or does that create a over abundance of creosote?
Another thing I've read on here is to not buy a cheap stove. Buy quality.
To me a heat stove is one of the most important purchases you will make for your cabin.
Also some members have purchased used stoves just to find when they were burning the stove that it had fractures. Something you won't see until you've got a hot fire going.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2018 11:02pm
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That's what's so confusing about choosing one, no experience. We had a fireplace that was used all winter long when I was growing up that's a lot different than picking out a wood-stove!
I will definitely buy a new stove and one that is made in the USA so I'm looking at about $900, I guess, plus the installation goodies...
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2018 11:15pm
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heatredefined.com are made in Virginia.
External Air Kit helps prevent drawing cold air in from around windows and doors.
Double wall pipe helps maintain good exhaust flow.
Pipe must extend min. two feet above roof peak.
Heat sink.
Wall clearance.
Concrete squares... with mortar to keep stray embers off the floor.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2018 11:27pm
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Quoting: justinbowser We are trying to decide what wood stove to get for our 288 sq ft cabin. About the smallest one I've seen says good for 900 sq ft (but made in China) and the good ones I like the looks of are for well over 1000 sq ft. Is there any problem putting in a bigger than needed stove? I have a pretty big 'dozed pile of Oak to feed whatever we wind up with. Also, the cabin floor is vinyl over wood so I will need to put down something to put the stove on. Would 1 1/4" concrete squares do the trick? I see high-tech sounding hearth kits for sale but at over $500 that seems a bit out of line... Thanks...
Yes, I ran into the same deal. As for hearth, I just bought one, set it in place, done. They have straight or corner ones. Spendy, but meets fire code.
As for woodstove, ended up making my own. You can try to get a Jotul 602 (pronounced yodel)
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2018 11:39pm
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I am leaning seriously toward the Englander 1800 stove and a Duravent through the wall kit and assorted chunks of stovepipe. Hopefully I can get it damped down enough for our small cabin without causing other issues.
Good looking heater, Toyota!
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xtolekbananx
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 12:17am - Edited by: xtolekbananx
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Don't put a big stove. You will cook yourself out and damping down all the way is gonna create creosote. Like Toyota said Jotul 602 or Morso Squirrel are pretty much the smallest out there and will be ok for this size cabin. I have 320 sq feet and use Trolla 102A which is just like Jotul 602. I have to get up once a night to throw a log or two but that is not a problem. They also make small stoves for tiny homes but it is hard to find proper chimney and stove pipes and usually they are 3 and 4 inch which is not good because creosote clogs them up. The Englander 1800 is for 1800 square feet, way to big for your 288 sq ft and for that price you can get quality smaller stove.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 10:10am
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I've mentioned Grizzly Mini Wood Stoves here before and if your cabin is reasonably insulated a mini may just do the trick for you... not only in space saving which is premium in 288 sq feet... but appealing & functional too...
Have a look here
https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/products/cb-1210-br-cubic-mini-wood-stove
There are other "Mini" manufacturers which target Mobile Homes, Boats, Tiny Homes as well...
Here is the Dwarf 3K which has other interesting optional goodies & not unreasonable in price.
https://www.tinywoodstove.com/product/small-stove-the-dwarf-3kw/
Myself, I have a 500 sq foot cabin and used the smallest Hi Efficiency , low clearance stove I could get by Flame International which is also mobile approved and that tips overkill.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 10:55am - Edited by: Nate R
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I've been wringing my hands a lot about this, same issues/concerns. I ended up buying a Jotul F100 for our upcoming cabin build. Small firebox, but reviews are good if you have a decent chimney, it seems. And I liked the clearances for my situation, pretty reasonable.
One thing to pay attention to is the low burn setting in the EPA listings/tests. From my understanding, the "ideal" burn amounts (by weight of wood) are set up by the EPA based on firebox size, you may want to make sure you pick one that CAN be damped down enough to burn <10K BTUs. I suspect some stoves limit how much you can damp the fire down to meet emissions.
The EPA list of approved woodstoves gives a BTU range from the testing done. Some will do 25-28K BTUs on "high", but only 12,000 on low, which might downright cook you out of <300 sf, depending on outside temps and insulation levels. IIRC, the Jotul 602 only goes down to 12K BTU on low according to the test data, the F100 goes down to 7700 BTU. (Jotul publishes the EPA test data right on their website.)
The EPA list is on an Excel sheet at the bottm of this page: https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves It lists the High and Low BTU ratings from their testing. You might be able to get a higher BTU than the high by filling the firebox more if there's enough airflow to burn faster, but I question how much lower than the low you could get. You can also see which ones meet the 2020 regs. Emissions are getting tighter, and stoves won't be able to be SOLD after May 2020 that don't meet the new regs, UNLESS Congress DOES get the 3 year extension in place that's being looked at. (That's why I bought my F100 NOW, BEFORE my build.) And you'll notice even fewer of those can do low BTUs. Look at the Intrepid...... a VERY narrow BTU range. (Controlled by airflow allowance into the stove.)
Doing a heat loss calculation for your building, and then looking at low burn rates can help. A heat loss calculation will tell you approximately how many BTUs you'll need at a particular outside temp. There's a great calc for this here: https://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLossOld/HeatLoss.htm
Be aware that the R Value/U Factor is for the WHOLE wall, not just the insulation R Value...but the average of the wall with the framing, etc.
Anyway, I looked at a lot of stoves for a long time, and that's what I settled on for a highly insulated 500 SF cabin. With the way the stoves are set up now, the "ideal" is to burn relatively quickly, not on low for 12 hours. So, my thought is that good insulation will retain that heat longer through the night, as it doesn't seem the F100 will stay lit ALL night. Maybe coals in the morning to restart, but we'll find out!
Good luck, and PLEASE let us know how it goes! I got frustrated with how much discussion there was about this on the net, but little feedback from people AFTER they made their choices and lived with it for a time in small places.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 04:21pm
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Went to a fireplace and stove store this afternoon and looked at several stoves. I think we have decided that the Vermont Castings Aspen model would fill the bill nicely. My wife really liked the Intrepid II but it's way outside of our budget...
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 04:34pm
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Justin, The Englander 1200 (13-NC) is $150 less than the 1800.
FYI the different Brand names for the same model stove are for where the stove is sold. Englander is Home Depot and Lowes.
I don't know why a person can't just burn a smaller fire in a large stove. Of course we don't know what environment you have. Maine or North Carolina. Elevation?
Cubic Mini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yc1AGqcWBU
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 06:04pm
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Dave,
I think the problem comes in with certain stoves that will only allow you to tamp the air inlet down so much. If you can't turn it down enough, you're going to still roast with a small fire. And, clearances can be an issue in a tiny space with a large stove.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 07:45pm
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Dave - Cabin is in the Ouachita Nat. Forest in OK and our property is about 960'. I was wanting a big one so I could maybe bank up a fire that would burn all night without having to get up and toss on a log. But, damping down a big stove that much would cause creosote buildup faster.
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redwolfguild
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 08:35pm
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I have the Morso Squirrel in my 400 sqft cabin (200sqft downstairs and 200 Up) and it will cook us out of the upstairs if I am not careful. Damn thing is Hot.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2018 08:50pm
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Quoting: justinbowser Vermont Castings Aspen model
I know a couple of people with that stove in 450 sq ft cabins. Those are nicely made stoves and work well. I have had other VC stoves over many years, in different locations. Liked every one of them. I still have an old coal burning model in the shop.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 02:35am
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Quoting: justinbowser damping down a big stove that much would cause creosote buildup faster.
Trade-offs. Nothing is perfect. Hot enough to keep creosote down means putting in logs in the early AM. Creosote can happen with damp wood, burning sappy wood, etc. I just clean mine out every few years.
Quoting: justinbowser Cabin is in the Ouachita Nat. Forest in OK and our property is about 960'.
For that location, you don't need an external air kit. So that VC should be fine. Case Iron can crack if you start it too fast/too hot. Other folks here may have recommendations on starting a cast iron.
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neckless
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 05:40am
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i have a nadian down draft stove for twenty five years its been a great stove, u feed from top and draft is on top as well makes no sense but works great , will hold coals for hours
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neckless
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 05:47am
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved= 0ahUKEwi5xuG46aPeAhXMJTQIHaAOBiIQMwhFKAQwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skoolie.net%2Fforums %2Ff28%2Ftempwood-down-draft-stove-10845.html&psig=AOvVaw3yr1yJd6l6g92Vk3RhxuqV&ust=1 540633574714745&ictx=3&uact=3 this looks like it
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neckless
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 05:53am
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hey that is the stove lol there was a boat builder that use to build these stove in the 90s ...never had a wood stove work this good and u can shut right down to no air .iam heating 16 x 24 cabin and hang out there in -40 here in the great white north.......
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slatecreek
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 08:08am
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I have a similar situation, I've looked at all of the stoves out there and with a 250 S.F. cabin, and all of stoves are too big. The Cubic Grizzly might fit the bill but I would like a slightly larger firebox. I like the boat stoves but worry about cracking cast iron.
Having a wood stove in my home now I know it's hard to build a little fire for less heat. The flue seems to be the determining factor of how hot the stove will burn. 3" flue burning hard, low BTU, and 8" flue (like my home stove heating 3,000 S.F.) high BTU.
I did like the Gray stove mini 12 CT but it seems Lloyd who was building them is out of business. I liked how his stove was designed for maximum heat, air wash and control in a little package and I would definitely buy one of those if they were still available.
So after studying wood stoves for a few months, I've decided to build my own like Toyota_mdt out of a piece of 12"x12" 3/8" wall square tube bought for scrap from my local steel supplier. I have high temp glass, plate for the door, and stainless 4" insulated pipe for the flue. Will probably start building it in December when things slow down at work.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 10:52am
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Yeah, showed the Grizzly to the wife last night and she though it was "cute" but didn't relish the thought of having to get up multiple times per night to toss in another 6" log!
I would like to find something cheaper than the $1000+ price tag of the Aspen but it is looking to be about the best I can come up with. Even with all wood being free adding up the cost of stove and installation supplies makes feeding $$$ to a propane heater look a bit more attractive.
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slatecreek
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 11:00am
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The Englander VL-17 isn't bad, about $600-700 bucks but it's still a bit large for my use. You might want to check that out, Home Depot carries this.
We are going to have propane heat as a back up but a cabin has to have a wood stove.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 11:04am
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I have a 1,000 square foot cabin, but with a lot of cubic space with a very steep roof and tall walls. I purchased a country hearth 2000 from tractor supply, which is supposedly good for 2,000 square feet. I installed it this August in preparation for hunting season. Fired it up for the first time this October for hunting and had temps in the high teens at night and about low 30 during the day. The cabin has only been insulated in the floor so far, and there is about 4 inches of closed cell spray foam. We had to run the stove hard and hot to keep the interior temperature around 68. I think I might have bought too small. But once I insulate I will see how it goes. I may need to get a bigger stove.
Just a data point for you...
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slatecreek
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 11:09am
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Quoting: snobdds We had to run the stove hard and hot to keep the interior temperature around 68. I think I might have bought too small. But once I insulate I will see how it goes. I may need to get a bigger stove.
Good point snobdds, insulation plays a huge factor in the stove size. We can actually heat our cabin with two 1500 watt electric heaters when it's about 30 degrees outside. It takes a while to heat everything up in the cabin but I know I need a small stove now.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 11:26am - Edited by: snobdds
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Here is the size, just for reference.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 11:32am
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The cabin is fairly insulated. It's pier and beam and completely skirted. The floor is not insulated but has a layer of 3/4" plywood, one layer of 7/16" OSB, and then thick vinyl plank flooring glued over it. 2X4 walls are insulated with R11 fiberglass as well as the ceiling. I would seriously consider an electric space heater but it is completely off-grid and I can't afford a battery bank big enough to run a heater through the night!
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redwolfguild
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2018 01:05pm
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Quoting: snobdds # Posted: 26 Oct 2018 11:26 - Edited by: snobdds Reply Quote Here is the size, just for reference. 1544.jpeg 20180901_085551.jpg
Nice..
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spoofer
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2018 09:24pm
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Justin
that aspen is a very nice stove although in OK a couple of candles might be enough to heat your place. I burn lots of wood here in NY. I too like Jotul stoves.
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justinbowser
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2018 09:30pm
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We found an old antique Vesper Novelty parlor stove locally we might go look at - the wife really likes the way it looks.
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Rickkrus
Member
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2018 08:12pm
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I have the Cubic Mini Grizzly. It works great in a 300 sq ft cabin. I do have a propane furnace but I set it at 50 degrees. The mini keeps the place warm until 3am or so when the propane kicks in.
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