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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 09:47am
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My propane education and progression continues. Now that I have a wall heater I'm thinking 20lb tank might not be enough.
Anyone wrestling 100lb tanks around?
I have one I've been using for an air tank but it's stamped 1980, no longer usable?
With a larger tank I'd put it farther from the cabin. What to use for pipe/plumbing?
Larger tanks can't be hauled to the filling station?
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creeky
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 09:58am
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I wrestle 100lbers. I have a tractor, so that makes it a lot easier.
Most filling stations will fill them. Check with your local propane companies tho. Some of them will drive out and fill. Way easier.
In my area I have to take my tanks to the road. And then haul them back. Still. A good deal simpler than driving 20 minutes to town. And the cost is by weight. I cut my propane costs in 1/2.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 10:37am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Hundred pounders are too heavy and tall unless you buy the squat version, those type are expensive.
The shorter version might be easier to haul upright if you don't have a lot of headspace but both weigh the same.
We use 30 pounders.
Had two from our travel trailer and purchased four more for $48 each from Amazon.
They were not purged so if you decide to go that route make sure the propane shop will do it for you. We took ours to Uhaul. It takes awhile so don't go on the weekends when they are busy.
We didn't want to go this route. We are trying to make things as easy as possible so we can enjoy our cabin in old age.
We wanted a torpedo tank but the guy from the propane company said the truck could not get down our bush road.
One 30 pounder will last us about four days this time of year due to heating.
Have six of them to cut down on trips to town. It's 70 miles round trip.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 12:06pm
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100# tanks come tall & narrow, or short & wide, both weigh roughly the same and require manhandling when full... They have to remain upright (unless specifically designed for side use).
You can get 30 & 40 LB tanks which are typically used on forklifts (I got two from a local gas supplier for $40 ea) and got another 40LB but an aluminium one that was decertified (for free) which I used to make my Urinal - polished up really nice too !
Plumbed my cabin (2 on-demand units & cookstove) with 1" Iron inside to appliances to the main valve and sheathed copper to the 250L Big Bob tank. Many folks use copper (flare fittings) - all depends on your local codes and relative to how much gas being used.
You may want to check with companies that refill tanks for forklifts . here I have a local PRAXAIR Dealer who does the LPG for forklifts and he has tanks up to 50LB either Steel or Aluminium (Aluminium is much lighter). They also recertify & restamp accordingly after new valves etc are installed. May be an option that an save you some hard earned coinage. For your use, likely copper line to an RV Regulator & 2x 20LB or 30LB and your good to go.... That is what I did for my Powerhouse Furnace which is a direct vent unit I ripped out of an RV I was demolishing. Works just peachy !
Good Luck
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cspot
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 01:12pm
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My wall heater will last about 24 hrs of use on a 20# tank. Now that is 24 hrs of steady burn time so it most weather it will last for a while.
Not sure if you have a perm or recreational cabin, but I think you have 2 options.
1. If you have the ability to get propane delivered easily then you could get a large tank like a 100 gallon which is like 424 lbs of propane or they even have larger.
2. Wrestle around 100lb tanks and get them filled. Another option is to get 40lb tanks and then get an autoswitch over valve. This way you have 80lb at your use. You could even use this valve with the 100lb tanks.
I looked hard at option #1 and would go that way for a permanent residence. The issue with #1 is if you are using recreationally and you don't use much one winter you may have to pay the company more for use of the tank. Depending upon your area you may only have 1 supplier.
I opted to go the #2 route and bought 2EA 40# tanks. This way I can easily put in the pickup and go get filled. Tractor supply is about 20 miles away so I can get them filled there. This is also where most of the places are to eat and other stores so I often go past it anyway. I used single 20# tanks last year and of course they always ran out at about 3 AM. Looking forward to having more propane so that shouldn't happen. The valve has an indicator so you know when it flips from the one tank to the other. I am also keeping a 20lb at camp so that would give me 100lbs of propane when they are all filled.
I bought the Camco Autoswitch valve/regulator, but there is other brands out there as well.
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deercula
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 03:03pm
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If it gets very cold in your area the smaller tanks can not supply the amount of fuel needed to function. The regulator will freeze up. This is why I got a 100 gallon tank filled by a local supplier.
This problem was discussed here:
http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/7_7640_0.html#msg110140
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 04:19pm - Edited by: paulz
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Great advice, thanks everyone!
Can the 100 pounders lay sideways in a pickup for filling? One of my few attributes is a strong back but I'm not getting any younger either. I do have a tractor..
My cabin is up a steep dirt road, a larger tank that the dealer could reach would have to go at the bottom, about 150 feet away.
I don't understand what Creeky means by cutting propane costs in half. Are larger tanks cheaper by the gallon?
I'll look into the 30-40 pounders, sounds like a good compromise between weight and capacity.
Free tank down the road from me, about 5x3' round. Don't know the age or if it could be used.
My cabin gets into the high 30s a few days a year, but no colder.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 06:37pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Most large propane tanks like the above depending upon where you live if they are 10 years old either need recertification or replaced.
There will be a date stamped onto the above tank.
The company I was going with before we were denied service had a rental program. $100 per year rental with a replacement tank every 10 years.
They don't want to risk using older tanks.
The tank had a sensor on it that would let the company know when a refill was needed.
We had the entire cabin done up with propane lights, stove and refrigerator this summer.
It was hired out since we don't know anything about hooking any of this up. To much danger involved so not worth what could happen if we made a mistake.
Because we are in Canada they had to vent the refrigerator to the outside.
They had to cut a hole in our beautiful log cabin 
We got the wind vent. Highly recommend it will keep the pilot light from going out during the windy days.
We also got the switch over device. It automattly switches over to the second tank when the first one runs out.
As to the propane freezing up.
I was freaking out about that. I thought we needed a high pressure regulator and a 100 pounder to stay past freeze up.
The propane installer whom has been doing it for 30 years told me there is the same amount of pressure in a propane tank no matter the size.
He said it would have to get really cold like below 0F and stay there for days before and if it would freeze.
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 06:48pm
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You can't haul around a propane tank while laying it on its side (unless it's specifically designed for lying on its side).
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deercula
Member
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 07:56pm
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Quoting: silverwaterlady He said it would have to get really cold like below 0F and stay there for days before and if it would freeze.
It's not the propane that's frozen, it's the regulator. Depending on the BTU output of the appliance, it can use more GAS than the tank can provide. When it's cold the LIQUID get sluggish and does not boil into a gas as fast as you are using it. It's not a pressure problem, it's a volume problem.
When this happened to me the furnace shut down. I brought the tank inside to warm up. After that it worked fine again for a few hours only to freeze up again.
One solution that worked was to run (2) 30 pounders at once, into one regulator. I just got tired of hauling tanks back and forth to the cabin and to Central Tractor for refills, so i got the 100 gallon. It is cheaper to buy in bulk. And it is easier to pick up the phone than those clunky 30's.
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cspot
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 08:46pm
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If the temps only get into the 30's then he shouldn't have any problems with regulators freezing or not getting enough flow out of a tank. I know I have had a 20lb tank in temps around 0 deg F and didn't have any issues with my wall heater.
Paulz, how much do you use your cabin that you would be using the heat?
You cannot legally haul the 100lb tanks on their side. It is a bad idea also because in an accident then if the tank valve would get knocked off the tank is going either forward or backward. If it is vertical then the force is going down and if it would catch fire the fireball would be going up and not into the cab. That is the reason that I bought 40lb tanks because I have a cap on my truck and cannot put the 100lb tanks vertical.
It is cheaper in alot of areas if you have really large tanks and get it delivered. Some places it is almost half the price of what it costs to get tanks filled. Really depends on your local market as I know some people that are stuck with 1 supplier for delivery and they really get a high price.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 09:10pm
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I use 100 pounders and don't find them too bad to lug around. I just put them on a hand truck and wheel them up to my trailer that has a tailgate ramp. I secure them and then get them filled and wheel them back to the cabin. Minimal lifting..more just wiggling into place.
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 10:13pm
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My question is not so much the size? But, do you leave the tanks hooked up? Coming back every 10 days or so. I turn my tank off. But find that lighting the pilot light is troublesome. Do I need to work on the connections? Regulators connections? Any thing you have found that might help? Right now it's a 30lb tank on a Northern tool direct vent heater.
Thanks
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darz5150
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 11:03pm
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Quoting: frankpaige lighting the pilot light is troublesome.
You probably need to give it extra time to bleed the air out of the line. I have 2 from NT. One has a 3 foot line. It usually takes about a minute to bleed the line before the pilot will stay lit on its own. I have another that's 30 feet from the 250 gallon tank, and sometimes takes several minutes bleeding the line after shutting off the tank. Pilot lights use very little propane. So it takes longer to clear the air from the line after shutting everything off. You would think it would hold pressure. But it doesn't. The longer the line, the longer it takes to bleed the line and re light the pilot.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2018 11:32pm
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The propane delivery guy told me that the price for delivered propane is based on how much I used.
If I didn't use a certain amount to meet their requirements than I would pay more per pound.
He told me since ours is a seasonal cabin that we would probably pay more per pound delivered than buying it at the local propane station.
Buying in bulk is not always cheaper.
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cspot
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 12:10am
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Quoting: silverwaterlady The propane delivery guy told me that the price for delivered propane is based on how much I used. If I didn't use a certain amount to meet their requirements than I would pay more per pound. He told me since ours is a seasonal cabin that we would probably pay more per pound delivered than buying it at the local propane station. Buying in bulk is not always cheaper.
That is what I tried to explain above, but you did a much better job. That is why I went with the 40lb tanks and an auto-switch valve so I didn't have to worry about using a certain amount. Depending on when I am there and what the weather is on those weekends would greatly influence my winter usage.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 12:34am - Edited by: darz5150
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Wow. I live in the Midwest and we have the option to sign a contract and lock in a certain price per gallon. I think its $1.51 per gallon this year. That really helped out a few years back when propane prices went up over $4 bucks/gallon. My delivery guy shows up to top off the tank in the summer when their prices are low. He fills my 250 gallon tank for the contract price. But I also have him fill all my smaller tanks. I have over 12 20 lb tanks, 4 Rv tanks, and 4 100 lb tanks that he fills for the " off the truck price". Usually less than a dollar per gallon. I just pay cash or write a check for the smaller tanks.
They do base the contact on the average minimum use from the past few years.
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paulz
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 11:03am
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My cabin is only a half hour away so we go back and forth a lot, stayed there most of this summer but in winter last year 2-3 days a week. After reading all the advice I think I need to run a full 20 pounder, see how long it lasts and then decide. I'd also like to hook up my water heater and cooktop which are on their own tanks. The 40 pounders seem like a good compromise for size and portability. Thanks again for all the help!
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 12:42pm
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Does anyone here leave their pilot lights on? First blush, I would not have. Either fear of fire or blowing out. But , it's a mindset. If you know your going to have to bleed it, you just do it.
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creeky
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 01:03pm
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I think propane costs are very region dependant. In my area its "fixed cost" for a tank. You can buy a full 20lber say, for 20 bucks. I was paying over 100 for a 100lber at one point. Plus I had to drive to fill it. What a pain.
Now I pay by the weight and get it delivered. Its far cheaper.
I leave my pilot light on my heaters. They are vented, reasonably good quality. The pilot light is enough to keep the buildings from freezing at this time of year. Cheap insurance if you will.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 03:03pm
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@frank. There is a thermocouple built in. If your pilot light blows out. It automatically shuts the gas off.
I turn my gas off after the cold season. If you leave yours on. No need to bleed it and re light it.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 06:39pm
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I used 20 lb'ers for a while and acquired 3 - 100 lb'ers....turned out 2 of them were past the expiration date so that was a waste. Finally went to a big company and got a 300 lb'er. They give you the tank and come out once a year to top it off since there are a few neighbors in the vicinity. The way we use it (water heater and stove), it should last more like 2 years for that size, I would think......It was the best choice for us, way cheaper, way less trouble, always plenty of fuel, and all for a very fair price......
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cspot
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 07:55pm
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Quoting: creeky I think propane costs are very region dependant. In my area its "fixed cost" for a tank. You can buy a full 20lber say, for 20 bucks. I was paying over 100 for a 100lber at one point. Plus I had to drive to fill it. What a pain. Now I pay by the weight and get it delivered. Its far cheaper. I leave my pilot light on my heaters. They are vented, reasonably good quality. The pilot light is enough to keep the buildings from freezing at this time of year. Cheap insurance if you will.
Yes it is very region dependent. I fill up at Tractor Supply and it is usually between $2.50 to $3.00 per gallon so a 20LB tank costs about 11 or $12 to fill up. They only charge you what they put in so that is good if the tank isn't completely empty.
I know of some people who have camps where there is only 1 supplier in their region and they really get rocked for a delivered price.
I don't leave my pilot lights on. I turn off my tanks when I am leave since it may be a couple of weeks before I am back. No sense in wasting propane. I winterize my water line anyway before I leave. My heater takes a bit of time to bleed out for the pilot light, but I know pretty much how long I need to hold in before I even try to ignite it now.
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paulz
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 08:49pm - Edited by: paulz
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There is a propane delivery service in my area, I'll have to check the price. My cabin, however, is up a tight steep dirt road, a large tank would have to be at the bottom, 100 feet down and 100 over from the cabin. Would that be OK? If so what would I use to plumb it up to the cabin?
I pay $20 for the 20 pounders exchange, 15.5 net.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 09:01pm
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Quoting: paulz what would I use to plumb it up to the cabin?
Around here. Copper tubing. Mine is partially buried. I don't know what would be best for you. Maybe ask one of the locals. I wouldn't think it would be easy burying 100 feet up a hill, especially with the size of your trees. LOL
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Borrego
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 09:56pm
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Quoting: paulz what would I use to plumb it up to the cabin?
Galvanized pipe around here, much sturdier than copper. Will last 50 yrs or so.......
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Borrego
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 10:03pm
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It is just soooo nice having a huge tank that's always pretty much full......takes a load off your mind and there's enough stress/hassles going off grid as it is.
Plus in case of disasters where propane may not be readily available, you would have a large stockpile....you can transfer the gas from the large tank to your smaller tanks for other uses.....BBQ/Heaters/Etc...
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 10:24pm
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Must shout out a Thank You for all the valuable information on this thread and others on this board.
Learning from others experience and (was going to say others mistakes) input. Haven't seen mistakes. Just ideas that are go-no go.
Thanks
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darz5150
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2018 11:17pm
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Quoting: Borrego you can transfer the gas from the large tank to your smaller tanks for other uses.....BBQ/Heaters/Etc...
@ Paulz. That would be easier than running a line up to your cabin. Grab some smaller tanks, go for a quick ride to fill em up, and you would still have the peace of mind that you got a few hundred gallons close by in case you get stuck at your place if the weather turns bad.
I believe you have to have wet tap to fill up your tanks. Maybe Borrego can explain it more. I don't know if a regular tank has a tap for that. So I guess I have a question.
Can I refill tanks using the same fitting that they use to fill my big tank. I know there's a fitting that a right hand thread BBQ fitting will screw onto.
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paulz
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2018 12:01pm
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Yep, great idea. I fill my Coleman bottles now from a 20 pounder for the Buddy heater, torch, etc.. My friend does this and pulls the little valve open which puts more propane in the bottles but I don't bother. No idea how you would do it from a large tank.
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