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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2018 10:42am
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Interesting point raised in the comment section of greenbuildingadvisor regarding the value of a kWh in winter vs. summer, particularly if one is off-grid.
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creeky
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2018 11:24am
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The point being a kwh is worth more in the winter than the summer.
In the summer on solar and off grid you have more power than you can use. Typically folks are recharged by 11 or noon. And have power to spare for the rest of the day.
In winter you can go days without getting to full (or, if you have lead batteries, days when you run the generator).
I had to greatly reduce my electrical use this November. The cloudiest in our area basically ever. But now the sun is shining most days. And I can use as much power as needed.
(Had nothing to do with snow. Tho cold. Yikes. I heat with propane and a wood stove. I've been thinking to install an air source heat pump. The electrical power use would have meant I either built a much larger battery bank and installed more panels. Or I would have been running my genny.)
So a winter kwh is worth more as you have fewer. A point the research doesn't describe.
They also went from latitude (53 degrees) to 90 degrees on the panels. It would have been interesting to see the winter angle compensated for. Ie. 68 degrees. I wonder that the steeper winter angle wouldn't have cleared snow faster and increased solar production. They missed the snowblower on that one.
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rockies
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# Posted: 30 Dec 2018 07:27pm - Edited by: rockies
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If the electrical loads are still quite high (despite using all LED lighting, low energy appliances, etc) then the culprit is probably your circulation pumps.
http://solarhomestead.com/off-grid-circulating-pumps/
Hardly anyone thinks of switching out their circulation pumps, especially if it came as part of a "designed" system.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2018 10:05am
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I like to keep the light on.. set at 45* south ..
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woodspirit
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2019 11:29pm
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hi, ok I have a question about your question. I too am thinking about the solar question for my cabin. You should and probably need a generator to charge batteries here in the frozen north especially in winter. why not just put thr money into a decent battery bank, forego the solar panels and every tgree days or so just charge em up with just a generator? are solar panels even necessary?
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 08:08am
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Quoting: woodspirit why not just put thr money into a decent battery bank, forego the solar panels and every tgree days or so just charge em up with just a generator? are solar panels even necessary?
I for one hate the sound of generators when I'm trying to enjoy the piece and quiet. You have to lug fuel and keep fueling. Maintenance on the generators.
I sit on the dock fishing and am making power and you wouldn't even know it.
Sometimes generators are a necessary evil, but less is better in my books. But to each their own, as long as I'm not your neighbour.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 09:25am - Edited by: Wilbour
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Let's not forget the all mighty $. So many of our decisions are based on money. The problem lies with how we rank the $ in our decision making.
A genny can be had cheaply upfront but fuel, maintenance and reliability add up over time.
Solar is honestly one of your most costly expense upfront but cost zero $ to maintain and is more in line with our back to nature ideals at our cabins.
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creeky
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 10:10am
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If your genny costs the same amount as your panels. Then you pay gas.
Solar is cheaper. Quieter. Less work.
For anyone looking at pumps. that link Rockies points to is a pretty good read.
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woodspirit
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 11:12am
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The problem for me is the panels would have to be 200 feet away and then an electrician to inspect all of it. I am seriously remote where I am, using a Honda eu2000 and it's about 70 feet away, enclosed, so the noise would be minor. in western NY in winter, we may see sun once or twice in ten days. So the gen will have to run anyway every few days. Eventually I'll be adding panels and charge controller and inverter but is it possible to just use a few agm batteries and inverter and just charge them with generator? btw, I love this site. just joined yesterday. you guys are the best there is about small cabins, Watching Boss of the Swamp got me to realize this can be done.
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creeky
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 03:59pm
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200 ft is nothing. I've done 600 ft.
If you're so remote why do you need an inspection? Honda eu or solar. Same electrical system.
Anyway. Buy an inverter and a charger. Then at least you're ready for solar.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 09:54pm
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To put it frankly, I've learned on this site that if one's mind is made up then one will fight to the end to prove themselves right.
There are many diehard genny fans here that will have good arguments against solar. At the same time there are those who swear by solar and can never see themselves powering their devices with fossil fuel.
Ask yourself why you need electricity at your cabin. I managed a few years with a power pack to charge my phone.
Now I appreciate some led lighting, a small fridge (total luxury there) and a radio and TV with some movies from home.
I have a solar setup that I had designed by a local that meets my needs for $1200. Since the system is expandable I now am adding an extra battery to give me some insurance on those cold dark days of winter.
Powering a battery bank with a genny is super simple but solar requires a little bit of learning, but is within reach of most cabin people.
Infact, if you are just not if the sort who is comfortable playing with electrons, you can always have it set up for you to the point of flipping 3 switches and you're done!
Since you posted on this thread, you must be a little curious about going solar. Therefore perhaps you should make a list of the positives about solar.
Either way, people here will not judge you for your final decision since everyone here has a unique situation and you will make your choices based on your needs.
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Wilbour
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 09:55pm - Edited by: Wilbour
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Man Wilbour likes to talk
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Wilbour
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 10:08pm
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I take back what I said about the solar learning curve.
My friend charges his battery bank with a gas genny and he has to know a lot more than me with regards to keeping his engine running.
All I do is flip 3 switches and enjoy. My friend has to gas up his genny, check the oil and monitor when he needs to run the genny.
I don't do anything like that. Not to mention changing the oil and lugging gas.
Just saying...
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woodspirit
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2019 10:39pm
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I've studied solar alot and had it all set in my mind to go that route until yesterday. that's when I just started to wonder if it is feasable.
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old greybeard
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2019 07:55am - Edited by: old greybeard
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If you can put in a large tank and get deliveries at a reasonable price propane can't be beat for heating and cooling. And I love my propane fridge, with a 250gallon tank and fuel delivered at around 1.80 a gallon I only use about 150 gallons or less a year. Thats averaging 25 trips and about 100 days ayear at camp.
My solar, 2x80w panels into 4 6v golf cart batteries only cost about $800 to put in, and gives me all the lights, radio and charging, and tv I need for 8 months of the year. Up north with snow load and low sun the winter months are tough on solar. Plenty of power for lights and radio and that's it. Run the generator for the 8 football games I must watch during those months. Snow and cold kill my panel output and batteries.
My fixed panels on top of my roof have very little output with a snow load and low sun, that article showing a 3% loss is not what I'm seeing, I bet I'm down 40-50% in winter.
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woodspirit
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2019 10:44am
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I'm planning on a 9cu ft DC refrigerator freezer and a propane stove. Maybe my flat screen tv and led lights but I'm pretty frugal already in my three bdrm house. Don't even have tv at home and I won't ever watch another football game again. I'm planning on the cabin as a full time place after selling the house. I have a propane heater in the cabin now but I don't use it because it causes too much moisture in the cabin even with skylight and Windows open. there is zero ventilation in the roof. so my plan is an 18x10 addition with a small woodstove, and putting in a metal roof and fixing the ventilation with soft it vents, a ridge vent and insulating the roof the right way.
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creeky
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2019 01:56pm
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Which DC fridge is that? An normal fridge can be much less expensive. Money that can be put towards a more robust solar system.
I've told this story a thousand times. But my switch over from a propane fridge to an electric one has saved me over 2,000 dollars now. Both in the lower cost of the fridge and propane savings.
Propane heaters should always be vented. Its the law in Canada.
Greybeard's experience with solar production is the main reason I suggest folks do ground mount and tiltable solar panels. You must be able to sweep your panels in the winter. Being able to squeeze out a few more watts with a better solar angle for winter. Worth it.
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woodspirit
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2019 04:56pm
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agree totally with the ground mounted panels. if you have to replace or fix your roof then it requires removing the panels from the roof also. As long as you have the space and southern exposure, ground mounting is best.
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woodspirit
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2019 04:57pm
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the fridge I'm looking at is Unique brand.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2019 10:06pm
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What's the cost on those? I just don't like wiring for both dc and ac. Low voltage dc is ...
A 10 cu ft fridge uses about the same power in AC or DC. 300 kwh/yr. AC fridge costs around $400.
Greybeard. We just went through heavy snow but very cold. The snow just didn't stick. Blew off. I wonder if our sticky warm then cold climate doesn't make things worse. I get freezing rain. Snow. That stays on for days if you don't sweep.
Just a note: Yesterday at the farm. 2" of snow on one set of panels. 4" on the other.
Making 64wh. at 10 a.m.
Cleared panel set 1: 164wh.
Cleared panel set 2. 264wh.
x 5 hours of bright cloud. Extra kw of power.
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