|
| Author |
Message |
ADK Don
Member
|
# Posted: 16 Apr 2018 11:15pm
Reply
So I installed a Danby propane refrigerator years ago in a cabin in Vermont. The manual said that it must be vented to the outside and that's what I did. I am buying a new propane fridge from the Amish to install in a log cabin in New York. The Amish who I am buying the refrigerator from and the company who makes the refrigerator says that it does not need to be vented to the outside. I am not complaining and am not in a rush to cut a hole through my logs. I was wondering if someone on here knows why they no longer need to be vented ?
|
|
Jebediah
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 05:24am
Reply
The only thing I know is I have a non vented but if I want insurance or even a propane supplier I need to but a vented model...Canada
|
|
ILFE
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 07:05am - Edited by: ILFE
Reply
Even growing up (I'm 51 now), we had a non-vented propane heater in our beach house. No one ever died, or even got sick, from it running.
I imagine, although I could be wrong here (I'm no propane expert, for sure), the burning propane isn't really the issue, as long as there is some air flowing through the home. It's the leaks, I believe, that will get you.
This was in South Georgia.
|
|
ILFE
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 07:05am - Edited by: ILFE
Reply
Duplicated post.
|
|
FishHog
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 09:08am
Reply
there is lots of ventless technology now, most have an Oxygen sensor that will shut them down if they aren't burning properly and CO levels increase.
you will get replies telling you never to run propane inside that isn't vented. And there is a mild risk with them, but with a properly maintained unit and a CO monitor they are in fact quite safe. Hence the reason they are allowed and approved in many areas these days.
To each their own, but the short answer is yes, there are units now that don't need to be vented.
They will add moisture to your cabin, if there is a major failure there could be a CO problem. If that concerns you, you certainly can vent them.
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 10:01am - Edited by: ICC
Reply
Quoting: FishHog if there is a major failure there could be a CO problem.
It does not take a major failure. All it takes is a little spider and dead batteries in the CO alarm.
Will this be a fridge that gets intermittent use as might be the case with a recreational cabin? If the fridge is left turned off for periods of time there is a real danger of spiders spinning webs and causing air blockage that is sufficient to cause serious CO output. My closest neighbors had this happen a few years ago. They came close to dying. Their CO monitor had dead batteries.
Venting can also make the cabin interior cooler in summer as the combustion heat is mainly vented to the exterior. My old house used propane fridges, 2 Servels. I built a vent box behind them. The fridges pushed back against the framing against rubber gaskets. I had sets of door in the wall outside to vent; one high one low. In winter when I wanted the inside heat I closed those and opened vent doors inside. Now my newer house uses electric as I increased the solar system size and use an LG linear compressor fridge.
|
|
FishHog
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 01:05pm - Edited by: FishHog
Reply
Quoting: ICC It does not take a major failure. All it takes is a little spider and dead batteries in the CO alarm.
and the Oxygen detector failing. Pretty major coincidence in my mind.
Look I get it, people are afraid. And you should be, but new technology has been approved to be safe. I'm not telling you to take a risk your uncomfortable with, but many people understand the concerns and are comfortable with the preventative measures taken. To each their own. A fridge alone would be pretty hard pressed to even make enough CO to be a concern. Hell I run 4 burners on my propane stove and 2 propane lights and have yet to have a measurable level of CO in my cottage.
So take precautions, know what your doing, maintain your equipment and there is no need to be fear mongering. But if you have fear, don't do it.
|
|
beachman
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 04:13pm
Reply
ILFE we too had a propane non-vented fridge in our beach house in NB Canada - and still do. Never a problem for at least 60 years. There will be those who will say all it takes is one bad night, but if you maintain these things and keep them clean, there should be no issues. We have a new propane fridge in our new camp also non-vented. We have a co detector and no problems there either.
|
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2018 11:52pm
Reply
It is interesting to hear someone say, ‘well we did it for xx years (insert your own long time period) and we’re still okay’ as if all past behaviors have had no consequences. Or as if we are now in the modern age, know everything, and so everything is okay.
We used to use lead in all motor vehicle gasoline, as well as the paints we used in our homes.
Asbestos was used in hundreds of items around us and thought to be safe.
We used to believe tobacco was good for us.
Doctors used to prescribe ingestion of mercury to cure some diseases.
Heroin and cocaine were used in medicines, not to mention Coca-Cola.
(that is my short list, I could easily triple it with things we used to do or use, and which have been shown to be life shortening)
Why would anyone think we’ve run out of things we do or use that have harmful effects? But, apparently, there are still those who believe the earth is flat, too.
So, back to the comment about ranges. Studies have shown homes with gas ranges have more indoor air pollution, not just CO, but oxides of nitrogen, and at levels which if occurred outside would trigger outdoor air standard regulations. It has also been shown that those levels can be cut to very low levels if all gas ranges had air exhaust vent hoods and they were used. It’s worse in winter and worse with energy efficient designs that limit air infiltration. That’s not a reason to return to building houses like we did a hundred years ago. It is food for thought.
As for fuel-burning appliances that have oxygen depletion sensors, those do have some merit. However, one can still be exposed to CO concentrations that should be avoided without running out of oxygen.
Like many things, follow the money. The regulations in those jurisdictions which permit unvented fuel-burning devices were often coaxed into being by the manufacturers who benefit from their sale. I don’t trust big businesses when it comes to them wanting to sell something all the while telling us that it’s good for us. The latest example would be that big pharma told us the new generation of synthesized opioids were not addictive and would safely relieve us from every ache and pain. Now, look at what we have going on; addiction, abuse, a death rate that is difficult to comprehend. And big pharma making record profits.
If you believe big business has our best interests at heart, has our health and well being in mind, then I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.
|
|
ILFE
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Apr 2018 10:24am - Edited by: ILFE
Reply
beachman, I agree with you.
Quite a number of years ago, prior to me moving to Southeast Asia, I owned a 30' tag along camper. We ran an LPG leak detector, 12vdc, flush mounted an inch or so, off the floor.
Just now, while looking on the Camping World website, I came across this: Duo LP & CO Alarm, Black
ADK Don, I would suggest something like that, and wire it to a fused 12vdc source.
Quoting: ICC But, apparently, there are still those who believe the earth is flat, too.
Quite a few, nowadays, unfortunately. They've lost the plot.
|
|
silverwaterlady
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Apr 2018 11:56am
Reply
I thought a unvented non CSA propane appliance in Canada automatically invalidates a homeowners insurance policy?
I'm getting a new propane refridgerator this summer and was told that they are going to have to vent it to make it legal in Ontario.
Not happy about that since they will need to cut into our logs to do it.
|
|
|
