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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 10:43am
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I'm looking to heat my 10x28 cabin in NE Washington for short winter trips. Mainly Oct-Nov hunting season and winter weekends with the family. We're at about 3000' elevation and regularly see sub 0 temps in the heart of winter. I'm not sure yet, but estimate 20-25 heating days a year, possibly more as the kids get older and start hunting too. I'm working on insulation, so that should be done soon. R-13 roof and walls, floor un-insulated.
To the question.....
I'm trying to decide if I should go with the original plan of a wall tent stove or a modern epa wood stove. The tent stove is cheap at about $225 out the door but will require a heat shield for clearance while still taking up more room than an EPA stove and be far less efficient. Dead standing firewood is free and plentiful but does require work to harvest and split.
An EPA stove like the Hi-flame Shetland 800 Sq ft is pretty much better in every way but cost about $625 shipped, and that is with a great deal I found online. They are over $900 locally. Another option but a little bigger is the Pleasant Hearth 1200 sq ft locally for $550 OTD.
At home I have a modern EPA insert so I'm familiar with burning wood for heat in a larger area but have no experience with tent stoves and no real long term experience with small cabin heating.
Any input is appreciated. Thanks. Here are the stove links.....
http://survivorcampstoves.com/#pricing
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hi-Flame-800-sq-ft-Shetland-Extra-Small-Wood-Burning-Stove -HF-905UPB/205582659
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pleasant-Hearth-1200-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove/999918274
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 10:52am
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One key, IMO, is a good draft control on the stove. A relatively small stove can cook you out of a cabin pretty quickly if you can't control the air going in. Check the fit and finish on the draft controls to make sure you can damp it down enough. Same goes for the door - be sure it seals well. I got a cylinder stove (basically a tent stove made from large-diameter steel pipe) which looks great but doesn't seal very well. Anything more than a few pieces of kindling, and the thing becomes a blazing monster and can drive me out of the cabin in short order (cabin is 12x16, insulated walls & roof).
You probably know all this and so did I, but I would get something better if I were doing it over. Ours is in the "guest cabin" that doesn't get used much. In the main cabin we have a nice Jotul stove but it was pricey (north of $1200 new).
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 04:46pm
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Thanks for the reply. I'm trying not to overthink this but I know the wood stove is likely going to be one of the most important pieces of equipment in the cabin. That's the same reason I'm pushing the budget past what I really want to spend on this.
The more searching I do it seems like a higher efficiency stove is the way to go. The main problem, other than the price, is to be considered efficient they need to run hot. If I run a stove hot that is made for 2-3 times the sq footage of my cabin it will be miserably hot. So am I losing the benefit of a more efficient stove? Could I just add a baffle below the flue to a tent stove and gain back some efficiency?
I talked to the guys at Silverfire and can get their Tiny House Dragon shipped for $510 total. It's a new stove so I cant find any reviews but it seems like a good size for my needs.
http://www.silverfire.us/tiny-house-dragon
They also make an interesting tent stove that utilizes secondary combustion and has an oven. The firebox is a bit on the small side so I might have to supplement with propane overnight. It's $400 after shipping.
http://www.silverfire.us/multi-tent-dragon
I also found one of the cheap US Stove cast iron logwood stoves locally for $300. Not ideal due to size and clearances but they look good and it's cheap.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/US-Stove-Logwood-900-sq-Ft-EPA-Certified-Cast-Iron-Stove-1 269E/206442887
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 04:47pm
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Check craigslist for used Jotul 602. They are for small places and can go brand new for 900. You can find used for much cheaper or any other stove that is small. Tent stoves are not efficient at all and you are gonna find yourself getting up at night a few times plus they are not as safe as regular wood stove. Old cast iron stove will be hot for hours after tbe flames die. Whatever you do do not buy Vogelzang. It is made in China and it is not air tight.
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Brian Ray
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 05:57pm
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We started with a tent stove in our 300 square foot cabin in Southwest Washington. As Atlincabin found, draft control was nearly impossible with all the leaks and would cook us out pretty quickly. Eventually the door warped to the point of being a fire hazard, so we upgraded to this: http://www.heatredefined.com/englander/stove/Englander-Tranquility-1200-Sq.-Ft.-Wood- Stove
Takes a bit longer to get the place warmed up, but it’s much safer. Fire box is a little small, fully loaded it’s good for about 6 hours.
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 08:17pm
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Quoting: xtolekbananx Check craigslist for used Jotul 602.
There is a used one two hours away that is pretty beat for $500. Doesn't seem worth it to me and I don't have enough summer left to wait for a deal.
Quoting: xtolekbananx Whatever you do do not buy Vogelzang. It is made in China and it is not air tight.
Thanks. I just read some pretty bad reviews that said the same thing so I think that ones off the list.
Quoting: Brian Ray Takes a bit longer to get the place warmed up, but it’s much safer. Fire box is a little small, fully loaded it’s good for about 6 hours.
This is good info. Surprising though. I was trying to steer clear of anything in the 1000+ range of fear that it would cook us out. I like the dimensions of that Englander you have. I wish they would sell a cheaper version without the blower.
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spoofer
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 09:35pm
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I had a cheap stove from farm and tractor that leaked lots of air and Burned lots of wood. It heated my 14x24 shack very well though. I found a used Jotel on line for $125. It burns half the wood and looks prettier...It is green enamel and has a flat cooking/heating surface on top. It might be a 118B. My camp was built by my father-in-law and two of his friends, after he got home from WW11. They used mostly scrap lumber and old telephone poles.
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rockies
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2017 10:15pm
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I believe most manufacturers state that their tent stoves are NOT to be used inside a structure (like a cabin). It's a code violation.
You may consider getting a small stove wrapped in soapstone, which will retain the heat much longer.
http://www.livinlightly.com/off-grid-heat-small-wood-stoves/
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 01:24am - Edited by: xtolekbananx
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https://spokane.craigslist.org/for/d/wood-stove/6298248967.html
This one is close to you. Its Trolla, probably 105A. Its almost like Jotul 602. That stove is lined with firebrick and takes 6 inch pipe. For 80 buck its a deal. Clean it with brush and paint it and its like new. They weremadein Norway. I have the same and cant be more happier for my 10x20 cabin.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 10:15am
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Mine is a Jotul 602 and we couldn't be happier with it. But it was pricey new.
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 10:54am
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Quoting: xtolekbananx This one is close to you. Its Trolla, probably 105A.
I saw that but couldn't figure out what it was. I assumed for that price it wasn't in any kind of shape to burn in. After seeing yours and a quick google I'm pretty sold. I'm out of town but I'll get my wife to go grab it.
I also saw a Morso 2b squirrel stove on CL locally with the top radiator for $400. Looked like the enamel was worn off on one side but in decent shape. I've heard a lot of good things about the Morso. Do you folks think it's worth the extra cash over the $80 Trolla?
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 11:27am
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No personal experience with the Morso, but they look to be nice stoves. I probably would have bought one but could not find a dealer anywhere close to where I live. Probably a personal choice on which looks better to you. Either way, I'm jealous that you have such inexpensive opportunity!
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drb777
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 01:09pm - Edited by: drb777
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[img=null]null[/img]http://salamanderstoves.com/product-category/stoves/
Although they are not going to be price competitive with some of the used & local small stoves being discussed, the link above gives details of some really neat, tiny space wood stoves available.
I have one of their Hobbit stoves, and their new Range/stove combo really looks interesting.
Rang/stove combo
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Hobbit Stove
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 01:19pm
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Quoting: xtolekbananx This one is close to you. Its Trolla, probably 105A.
Taiwan is cast into the back so it must be a knock off. Inside brick needs redone. Seller said they've never had a fire in it. Found a local shop that will blast and coat the outside for $150. Do you think it's till a good deal?
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 06:05pm
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Quoting: Solitude WA Taiwan is cast into the back so it must be a knock off.
If it is a knock off do not buy it!!! They made those cheaply and cast iron is very easy to crack. It is funny how similar the knock offs are, they almost look the same but are cheap crap. Go with the Morso they are very good stoves and compete with Jotul's or if you don't have any time left check JoeandZachSurvival channel on youtube, he has a tent stove in his tent/cabin. Maybe you'll like the setup.
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 06:59pm
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Quoting: xtolekbananx If it is a knock off do not buy it!!! They made those cheaply and cast iron is very easy to crack. It is funny how similar the knock offs are, they almost look the same but are cheap crap.
Well Crap!! My dad went over to look at it today and said it looked pretty sound so I told him to go ahead and grab it. I was going to have him drop it off tomorrow for blasting.
Are they bad enough that I should just cut my losses and try to unload it before I waste any more money?
I'm thinking maybe I could get it blasted, paint it myself and give it a try just to see if the size/style works for my cabin. I hate to miss the deal on that Morso though too. I feel bad because I'm in Texas working and I don't want my family dealing with CL people and hauling cast iron all over town for me. I'm heading to the cabin for a week when I get home so I'm trying to get things in place to do the install while I'm there.
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rockies
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 07:09pm - Edited by: rockies
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Never ever ever buy an old, used, cheap wood stove. The rust, the metal fatigue, the micro cracks in the welds, the lousy fuel efficiency, it goes on and on.
After all, it's a box that contains a fire within a small room and it should be the best you can get (and also the most efficient for air quality).
You should just knuckle under and pay for the best sized stove for the size of your cabin. You will thank yourself for investing in the best now after enjoying years of headache free usage.
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 07:36pm
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Quoting: rockies Never ever ever buy an old, used, cheap wood stove. The rust, the metal fatigue, the micro cracks in the welds, the lousy fuel efficiency, it goes on and on. After all, it's a box that contains a fire within a small room and it should be the best you can get (and also the most efficient for air quality). You should just knuckle under and pay for the best sized stove for the size of your cabin. You will thank yourself for investing in the best now after enjoying years of headache free usage.
I was to this point yesterday and then the nostalgia of old European stoves popped up and I got all excited. Just so I'm clear, the Morso falls into this category as well I suppose? With the rust on the sides of the firebox where the paint was cooked off I'm guessing this was abused in a garage somewhere too.
The romance of a classic and my budget are my worst enemy here. If my wife wouldn't kill me I would be on the phone with the local stove shop that had a sale on the Jotul 602 this week.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 08:18pm
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Quoting: rockies Never ever ever buy an old, used, cheap wood stove. The rust, the metal fatigue, the micro cracks in the welds, the lousy fuel efficiency, it goes on and on. After all, it's a box that contains a fire within a small room and it should be the best you can get (and also the most efficient for air quality). You should just knuckle under and pay for the best sized stove for the size of your cabin. You will thank yourself for investing in the best now after enjoying years of headache free usage.
Old cast iron stoves are not welded, all parts come apart and you can clean them with wirebrush, paint and good to go. If the stove are made in Europe and USA they are quality. Remember some design didn't change for ages like the Jotul 602, well maybe a few minor things.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 08:28pm
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Quoting: Solitude WA Well Crap!! My dad went over to look at it today and said it looked pretty sound so I told him to go ahead and grab it.
If you already have it then go with it. Dont sandblast it. Take the screws and wirebrush all parts by hand paint itwith black stove paint and putit together. The bolts probably will brake so buy yourself some from HD or Lowes, just remember to get the GRADE 8 bolts, thay are strong and will not melt. Than seal all connections between cast iron parts with stove cement, this will ensure the stove will be air tight. Lastly lay firebrick using stove cement. Where the collar is put firerope and get y inch adapter, Its the same as for Jotul 602 adapter.
And you should be good to go. Its not European but it'll work.
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rockies
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 08:31pm
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The main point is not that a stove is "old" but that they are out-moded. The EPA air quality emission standards are only going to get more stringent. People don't want smokey, inefficient wood burning stoves anymore (either their own or their neighbors).
The amount of wood needed to keep an old, inefficient wood stove going is far more than the amount for a highly efficient one (never mind the constant tending of the fire to try and keep the darn thing lit).
If you plan on using a wood stove for your primary heating for many years consider getting one of the winners in the "Wood Stove Decathlon".
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/11/131120-wood-stove-decathlon-wi nners/
One of the stoves from "Woodstock Soapstone" would be great.
http://www.woodstove.com/
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 08:46pm - Edited by: xtolekbananx
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I understand that new wood stoves are efficient and EPA approved but it is a hunting cabin not primary residence. I would like to have brand new stove too but here almost everybody is on a budget and we have to make things work. It makes no sense to install a few thousand stove in a hunting cabin either. A few weekends in the winter time you can make things work with old cast iron stove.
I just looke at the prices of Woodstock stoves, all I can say is OMG. Some cost more than my cabin.
This is how mine looked and above picture show how it looks now. I get 5-6 hours out of it and than it stays hot for a few hours after that. I cost me $150 and took me one weekend to restore it.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 10:00pm
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Quoting: xtolekbananx This is how mine looked and above picture show how it looks now
I had that same one under a different name, was called a Fjord. Was full of cracks, its the one I replaced. It had too many seams, burnt too fast and hot. Nice looking unit.
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 10:32pm
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Thanks for the support everyone. I lost my way there a few times but like xtolekbananx said, it's a hunting cabin. And my wife thinks it's the "cutest stove ever" so I guess some restoration is in order. As suggested, I'm going to skip the sandblast and hit it with a wire brush, seal it, paint it and replace the fire brick.
There is a tag on the back and in 1979 it was a listed stove so that's better than nothing I guess.
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2017 11:24pm
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xtolekbananx
Do you have any more pictures of the firebox and baffle. I want to make sure I have everything before I get into this.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2017 12:34pm
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Just wondering how your stove turned out and if you ended installing it?
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creeky
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2017 05:48pm
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xtolekbananx. this's what its all about. Thx for the pics. I hadn't known about the stove cement and my bricks fall over all the time. I will be redoing.
I'm using an old 80s woodstove. full time off grid. Maybe i should upgrade. hmmm.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2017 06:44pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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I replaced my Fjord, exact same unit as the Trolla, I mean 100% identical. Made pieces, lots of small leaks, burn nice and hot, and I just ended up making my own. After removing the old one, was going to fill it with dirt and leave the round top cover off and plant flowers in it. A local neighbor swooped it up, so I gave it to him, he said it was full of cracks. One other reason I wasn't a fan of cast iron. So mine is all 1/4" plate steel, with full length welds, fully 100% water tight. Steel wont crack. Firebrick on bottom, both sides and back.
Why did I build my own? I just couldn't find one the right dimensions I wanted, kept it shorter, so I have enough room in from of door to end of hearth, and made it taller vs longer. But its so air tight, I can smother it out. So one has to be cautious, you can get creosote build up. So I am mindful of that and I may be able to smother it with it being so air tight. A good pal that is a firefighter told me a great way to kill a chimney fire is to toss in a styrofoam cup full of water into the fire. It create a steam plume and it supposedly put the fire out.
SolitudeWA, I have my place in north central WA at 3400 feet, we may be almost neighbors. 
Oh, that stove you got will run you out, but I see you do have enough windows. Its how I kept my place from getting too warm inside, heat the outside. 
Old Fjord stove (same as Trolla) now gone
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Building new stove 1
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Near completion...
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Finished stove
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2017 06:46pm
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New stove in place
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Solitude WA
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2017 11:25am
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I got the stove all cleaned up, sealed and painted. The fire bricks needed replaced and they were a special size so I just went and got half splits and did a custom brick job. The baffle wouldn't fit between the larger bricks so I made it out of brick too. It seems to burn well as it is. I planned on installing later this week but we are getting dumped on with snow so it may need to wait until spring. I'm not packing that stove in through a couple feet of snow. I'll get some more pictures up once I get it in.
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