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paulz
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 10:39pm
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My water is about 20' down my well, and my tank is 150 feet up hill from there.
What is a jet pump? Is it better than the regular submersible pumps? I see some submersibles with 150-200ft. head online for $150 or so, are they made in China? Any good? I only have a 110v generator.
Thanks.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 11:24pm
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Jet pumps mount on top of the well, so they are easier to replace when needed. Their disadvantage is head- they will do a lot less than a submersible.
Is your tank 150 feet vertically from the well? Vertical height is all that matters for head calculation.
You will be much better off with a 220 volt pump in terms of efficiency. But depending on your total head you might be okay with a 110. There are solar pumps that will work off a single panel and trickle pump water to a holding tank.
There is more to head calculation than height- pipe diameter, flow rate, length of pipe etc. the first thing to do is calculate total dynamic head, and then look for a pump that will deliver at your desired rate at that head.
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paulz
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 11:46pm
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Thanks. Yes, 150 vertical, another 150 horizontal.
OK so I'll go with a submersible, that answers that. I don't use that much water so my plan was to just haul my 6hp 110v gas generator (I think it's about 4,000 watt) down to the well every month or two and fill the tank (750 gallons). I'd have to get a new generator to have 220v.
How do I calculate dynamic head?
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2016 07:30am
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http://www.tuhorse.us/total-dynamic-head-tdh-calculator/
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2016 08:26am - Edited by: bldginsp
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I don't know whether a jet pump will handle 170-200 ft of head. Maybe it will- in which case it might be the better choice. Because your water depth is only 20 feet a jet pump is possible- I'd investigate different types once you know total head for sure.
Edit- here's basic info on a 1hp jet pump- doesn't look like they will handle that much head- indeed I think you need a submersible.
http://www.flotecpump.com/ResidentialProduct_fl_hw_jt_FP4210.aspx
If you install large enough wire to the pump, you won't have to drag the generator to it- leave the generator where is and flip a switch
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2016 10:41am
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Thanks again for replying. I spent Sunday filling three 50 gallon barrels at the well, trucking them up to the tank and pumping them into the tank with my gas pump. Don't want to do that again.
With the calculator Littlecrooner provided it seems I have about 150-200 dynamic head, although it varies greatly with the GPM entry, which depends on the pump I guess. Also changing the pipe diameter between 1 and 2 inches changes the output. I was thinking 1 inch. Elevation, pipe length and material I know, and will measure again today to be certain.
This is the cheap submersible pump I was looking at on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1HP-Deep-Well-Pump-200FT-33GPM-110V-Submersible-Stainless-Ste el-w-Control-Box-/351681038336?hash=item51e1d2c800:g:pE0AAOSwxvxW7FD1
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2016 02:24pm
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I'd be leery that that ebay pump will actually do what they claim. Your situation would put it right near it's maximum specified lift. Seems a lot less expensive than comparable pumps I've seen. Also, if you read the return policy, if you use it, you can't return it.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2016 03:38pm
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I would never buy such a cheap pump. But also, 33 gallons per minute is a lot more than you need. You could fill your tank pretty quickly with that, 1800 gallons per hour, but why?
Also a 1 inch pipe is not adequate for a flow rate like that. It will do it, but there will be a lot of resistance in the pipe, decreasing efficiency.
I suggest you look for a better quality 7 or 10 gpm pump that will last you a long time. Replacing pumps every few years is costly and a pain in the rear.
Don't ignore the solar pump and panel setups they have now. Automatically keeps the tank full when the sun shines.
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Just
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2016 04:27pm - Edited by: Just
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buy a Goulds , l have 6 , the best IMO. Call a dealer he will know what you need , made in USA .
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2016 03:51pm
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Thanks again guys. Solar would be nice, however here is an aerial view of my 7 acres of paradise.  I've had aspirations of putting some panels up a tree but so far hasn't happened. They are redwoods, 200+ ft. I do like the idea of a DC pump though, I have a deep cycle auxiliary battery in my truck that powers my cabin and charges when I drive. I will look into those DC pumps, they seem to have enough lift.
My neighbor gave me his old frozen Goulds pump that I have been trying get apart, can't figure out how the motor comes out. It's mostly brass, must be 75lbs.. I think it may be a lost cause.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2016 04:41pm
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Even if you can resurrect that old Goulds, it may not be the right pump for your situation. It may be designed for more, or less, head than you have. Very important to match the pump to the well.
Running the pump off a battery would work so long as the voltages match of course, but also you would need to charge the battery while it was being used or else the pump would draw it down too far and damage it. Pumps are major power users. So that means running your car while pumping, or using a generator for DC.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2016 10:14pm - Edited by: Just
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the pump will run on ether 110 or 220 make sure u are feeding it the proper power ,should be a wiring diagram on the inside of the conection box .If it still won't run remove the 4 bolt holding the casting to the motor with a 3/4 in wrench , then remove the impeller
by holding the shaft and turning the impeller counter clockways , then remove the seal that was behind the impeller you will likely
need a new seal , then with a 9/16 wrench remove the moter bracket 4 bolts . the pump may require a repair kit that includes a
new impeller and ventura and seals or a new moter . a new Goulds here in Canada is 600$ so they are wourth fixing
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paulz
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2016 07:26pm
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Quoting: bldginsp Running the pump off a battery would work so long as the voltages match of course, but also you would need to charge the battery while it was being used or else the pump would draw it down too far and damage it. Pumps are major power users. So that means running your car while pumping, or using a generator for DC.
So it must take a substantial solar setup to power one of these pumps then? Or if I understand correctly, you take a shower and it just puts back the 2 gallons in a minute or so? And the real sweat is filling the tank from empty? The best sunlight on my lot is near the well co-incidentally, might get 3-4 hours on a good day.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 24 Sep 2016 05:02pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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The solar pumps pump at a very slow rate, so they are only good for filling a tank. Ranchers use them in rural areas to water cattle- the solar pump gradually fills a large watering trough.
Most submersible water pumps pump at a higher rate- 5,7,10,15 gallons per minute. These don't necessarily need a storage tank, just a pressure tank, because they pump as fast as you can use water in the house.
If you have good sunlight exposure, I'd say you are a good candidate for the solar setup. But, in your case, you also need to pump vertically 150 feet to the tank, and I don't know if the solar pumps will handle that much head. I think so- you may need two panels instead of one- I don't know. Could be you would just have to settle for a very slow pump rate, but so long as you get 100-200 gallons a day you'll be fine unless you have 5 daughters who MUST wash their hair twice a day.
Once again it's very important to match your pump to your situation. But your big advantage is the storage tank- you could trickle the water in at 1/2 gallon per minute and still get 100 gallons a day. If you run a pump off a generator, you need a higher rate pump so you aren't running the generator all day. At 7 gpm I get 400 gallons per hour with my 5,000 watt generator, 400 foot well, 360 feet of head and a 2500 gallon tank. I think it uses less than a gallon per hour.
My pump pulls only about 1000 watts, but the pump manufacturer said I should use a minimum 5000 watt generator for the 1hp motor. That's because these portable generators aren't really capable of sustained loads for a long period of time near their limit. For buzz saws etc. they are fine cause it's not a consistent sustained load. I killed a dinky 2500 watt generator using two circ saws with it. The sustained load of a water pump will gradually heat the generator, and heat is what kills electronics. So you should choose a generator that will be supplying 20% its capacity for sustained loads.
With solar all this is irrelevant. The pump speed is variable so on a partly cloudy day it just runs more slowly. And you don't have to mess with a generator at all.
But you said you are in the redwoods with 3-4 hours of sun a day. How much you get on Dec. 21, when sun is at its lowest? Probably none.
Sounds to me like you would be best off with a smaller submersible, 1/3 or 1/2 horsepower, and a lower end flow rate, 5-7 gpm, maybe 10. Run wire from the pump to the cabin where the generator is, and a pipe from the well to the tank. Every few days crank up the generator and pump for 1/2 an hour to top off the tank.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2016 10:13pm
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Yes, your last paragraph sounds like the best option, though I sure like the idea of those DC solar pumps, and they do appear to have the lift.
I was thinking how quickly my well empties itself, then my neighbor came over and said he has two tanks, one at his well and another up his hill at his house. Well, long story short, I picked up this 550 gallon tank today for 100 bucks. I'm thinking I can put it down the hill by the well, or move the 750 gallon tank down the hill and put the 550 at the cabin. One difference, the 750 is solid green, this one you can (I guess) see the water level.
If nothing else it gives me some reserve water. You're right about the sun, nothing in December, and perhaps longer. North facing slope.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2016 11:21pm
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White colored tanks are generally not intended for potable water use. That doesn't mean you can't use it for such, but two concerns-
Potable water tanks are dark green or black to blank out sunlight to inhibit growth of algae in the water. If you use the tank, you should at least keep it in shade, total darkness preferably.
White tanks are often used for agricultural purposes, fertilizers, pesticides and all that good stuff. You don't want to drink water that comes from it. Polyethylene is porous to a degree and will absorb and then let off chemicals.
Hope I didn't rain on your party. $100 for a 500 gallon tank is cheap.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2016 10:47am
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Ew, that's not good. This tank is new so no previous chemicals to worry about. And shade is not a problem at my place.
Live and learn..thanks!
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