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tommyk
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 05:06am - Edited by: tommyk
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Hi guys, just joined the forum and look forward to interacting here. I've decided I want to live off grid and am a total beginner at this so I hope my questions are clear enough. At this point I've read many posts but it could be so overwhelming trying to figure out how to build the cabin I have in mind so I'm hoping to get some opinions here so here goes.
I'm just starting to look for land more than likely somewhere in Tennessee. I have read some posts here as a guest about foundations and realize it is critical to get the foundation part figured out or it could go very wrong so here are a few questions about that any help with any question greatly appreciated.
My plan is a small cabin built then addition added so I guess that addition may be relevant to choices and thoughts of which type of foundation would be easiest to add a small addition in the future as well :
A) If you were to use the Sono tube pier construction I see where lateral support may be an issue so what max size would you make the cabin in dimensions for that type of construction before deciding you can't use Sono tubes.
B) I've seen reference to what I believe many of you have suggested in larger cabins of a perimeter trench footing?I may have the terminology wrong. With that type of footing am I usually looking at a very expensive project ? Any size limitations with this type of footing? Is there any such thing as a cost calculator estimate for such a job based on depth and dimensions?
C) Would a concrete slab make the least sense due to cost as well as other considerations? Is there any way to also estimate slab pricing?
D) If an engineer was called in to give me information for a particular piece of land I purchase is that generally an expensive proposition or not too bad?
Sorry about the very long first post but I know this whole cabin project is dependent on foundation first.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 09:32am
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Welcome to the Forum !
First off, let me say that the info can certainly be overwhelming, a tornado of typo's don't help either LOL... so sit back and apply the rule K.I.S.S. while taking deep breaths.
As you are looking for land now, forget getting all worked up about foundations, electrical and all that... Believe me when I say, you will have plenty of time to agonize over those details later... Your choice for foundations will often be affected by the land you want to build on, and the type of structure you intend to build, as some foundations work better in some conditions where they would be bad in other conditions... Ask the folks with flooded basements on floodplains, whether it's a good idea to have a basement...
For example a Log Home (Cordwood or Standard) would require better footings and perimeter than say a stick built 2x6 framed box, simply due to loads and weight transfer. Even just between these two types of Log Homes the foundations would be significantly different because Cordwood would be a minimum of 12" up to 20" thick and a lot heavier.
If you get land which has good "Building Stone" on it, you may be able to use that for Rubble Trench foundations or even to use with Slipforms see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipform_stonemasonry
Start by making a list of what you Need, Want and Would Like & Nice to have's in regards to the property... Of course this all depends on what you want to do with the land as well... small farming, gardening, raising a few cows & pigs... So do you need 10 acres to support some livestock or ... ZONING ALERT - possible gotcha's here, but somehow I think in Tennessee your likely safe enough but always check ! Especially around anything remotely "urbanised" (spit.. spit..)
Do you need/want services (power, gas) or not which will affect the price of the land, no services nearby, more likely cheaper & less restrictive too... Would money saved this way offset the cost of Solar / Wind power (wind if land is suitable) ? Factors to consider as well.
Concrete Costs vary a LOT depending on your location and the type / quantity of mix you need. That can be guesstimated roughly.
Here's what I did as an example: (2014 NE Ontario Canada)
I went with a Frost Protected Slab with Radiant Pex for heat in it.
Cleared area of organics (3' deep) and filled / packed 3' of pit run.
Hardpacked after lines (power & water) placed. (ran 2, buried 4" O-Pipe conduits to powerhouse)
I put down 4" XPS Insulation (sourced myself, < 1/2 price)
Laid out 20'x24' Slab with 8"x10" thick perimeter ring and 4" thick slab with steel mesh & fibre reinforcement.
The cost for clearing the building which included driveway and pit-run & gravel + some other details came out to 2000 cash. That included a bulldozer, a CAT DL390 Excavator 10, Tri Axle dumps and 3 Tandem dumps. (it goes FAST !) and I had them shift 30 Tons of topsoil to my garden area...
Cost of my foam was cheap because I bought it as "Recovered Material" from a local commercial roofer....
Forming, layout, pour, finish & sealing (including my powerhouse floor of 8'x6'@8" thick also with Pex & Foam) cost $4,000 *cash* (would have been another 700 otherwise)
Well Drilling cost me $35 per foot with Cable Pounder Drill NOT a Bore Drill (they usually go 20% deeper because they do not fracture the rock resulting in slower flow rates) and it was an extra $10 per foot for casing... fortunately for me, 2' into granite+ 8 feet soil + 2 feet above grade, it was only 12' needed on my 280' well... With my Pump, Seals, Casing etc all in came out to just under $12,000 and I didn't fool around with pump, went with a Grundfos SQ5 Softsart 120V Deep Well pump as I am offgrid-solar. (Another Bore Driller quoted me at 40 per foot in soil, 45 a foot in granite and he wanted 20 a foot for stainless 6" casing) quite the scammer IMO... Got my guy by talking with the locals who gave great ref's and well earned too !
Septic.... OUCH for many... Luckily greywater & composting here is acceptable following the rules... Well is over 50' away & upslope from grey water discharge, compost area is over 75' from well head.
Hope this all helps and that you don't need too much Tylenol now... Break it all down into easy digestible steps / stages, one step at a time and one breath at a time... it won't be so overwhelming once it's in small manageable tasks / steps.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 10:29am - Edited by: bldginsp
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Welcome
Any type of foundation can be added to, it's not easier or more difficult to add to a particular type of foundation.
A- I wouldn't go over 200sqft with a pier foundation. Some people would say no to a pier foundation for a habitable building of any size.
B-A perimeter trench footing is a standard T footing that runs the whole perimeter of the building. Dimensions/depth depend on a lot of factors. Cost calculation is impossible because most of the cost is labor and that's going to depend on how you choose to do it.
C- Slab construction generally costs less and is easier overall because you don't build a wood subfloor. Again, cost estimating is difficult.
D- An engineer is called in to engineer your blueprints for your cabin in order to get a permit, and they generally charge a lot of money. If you do major earthwork on steep terrain you'll need a civil engineer to supervise that (cutting a road with a bulldozer). You don't need an engineer for building plans for a small, simple building in most places to get a permit, but you do need to show basic structural calcs for the footings, walls, roof. Many contractors can do that for you, or building 'designers' who don't have an engineering degree. They charge less because they don't have a sheepskin, but they can't engineer a building, but they can design a building that uses the rules of light frame construction (braced walls, span charts).
Have you bought land? If not, lots of stuff to consider there, as Steve got you started on.
Plan, research, plan, research before you leap. You'll be glad you did. We have one member on the forum who asked 1,000 questions and changed her mind 50 times, as a result, ended up with the best choices for her.
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tommyk
Member
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 11:59am
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Thanks Steve a ton of helpful info!
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tommyk
Member
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 12:00pm
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Thanks all helpful info guys , I appreciate it
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 12:36pm - Edited by: Steve_S
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Happy to help whenever possible. 
I debated sharing these following tips but figured why not, wishing someone would have shared the same with me...
1) If you plan on spending 5K, have 10K at hand. Somehow things magically double or more... bigger the hurry the more it costs too, odd but true.
2) Ask for Opinions, Suggestions & Thought BUT ALWAYS REMEMBER... Opinion are like A**holes, everyone has one, Judge based on individual merit, some aren't all that nice.
3) Never Ever be afraid to ask a question ! The ONLY Dumb Question is the one that never get's asked.
4) Be open to new ideas & concepts... Just because an idea or concept is different or unusual or may come from another discipline/trade/profession it may apply and could save you grief, money & time.
5) Never assume anything... Assumptions have led to wars, divorces and ohh so many unpleasantries... see #3 & 4.
6) Remember that here you are dealing with a global community, members here from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, all over the EU and even parts in Asia and further.... That means often we may use different terms or have different sayings and colloquialisms... So when reading add a pinch of salt and a touch tougher skin, sometimes a simple saying which is innocent in one part of the world may mean something else to someone else... You know it can get quite heated when folks get hung up on terms.... Ohhh My ! So Gid'day EH and stop furtling around on these sites and DO IT ! LOL BTW: A Stiffy in South Africa means a Cigarette while in Canada it's something quite different... Cadaver in some other places...
7) Patience... It's hard to be patient (sure is for me) when things start to happen and progress is being made... That's when stopping and listen to the Chipmunks tell ya off for being noisy and listen to the bird song a bit while taking a deep breath.
8) Keep it simple and don't stress. Unless you have a pressing need and will be in the freezing in the snow come November. If your under the gun to find something and get setup... There are some amazing folks here with connections and contacts and you might be surprised.
Once you have your property must have needs, wants & like to have's listed down, a general location or locations and a rough budget as to what you want to spend on land.. or land with some things (cabin, well, septic or other)... Then I would post that asking if anyone knows of or seen properties that fit that description. I believe we have a fellow here who has a couple of properties in Tennessee or thereabouts, not sure, was a while ago.
MOST IMPORTANT ABOVE ALL ELSE Laugh & remember to do it often... Humour is an ever important ingredient to success !
EDIT: Forgot one itty bitty point...
I have to remind myself occasionally, so sharing it too... If you ask a question, be prepared for the answer, as you may get one you might not like.
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tommyk
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2016 12:42pm
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Thanks Steve all great points . I'll definitely sit down and sort out exactly what my wants and needs are then start looking for the land then I will post with specifics when asking opinions.
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