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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 06:38pm
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I was actually looking for a solar air heater when I stumbled upon this:
http://www.amazon.com/Eco-heater-NA400S-Wall-Mounted-Ceramic-Convection/dp/B004FAMXL0 /ref=pd_sim_sbs_469_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=319OuIlDS3L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR117%2C160 _&refRID=0RTSX981VHFZ569DK65W
It's not a primary heat source or something you'd want to run all day, every day. HOWEVER, at 250 watts with no fan or high surges -- plus, the ability to plug it into a thermostat/timer like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8/ref=p d_sim_201_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=313Eh1W4f3L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR84%2C160_&refRID=1V 251VB3SVCDBXKKFZQ5
it may be a viable way offgrid to keep the pipes from freezing if you have to go away and you're not able to fire up the wood burner. You could fuel up the stove and then program this little heater to turn on and maintain a certain temp around the kitchen or bathroom after the fuel is gone and the heat is dying.
Because I think that's the best use for these? To maintain a temperature, not really to heat a place that's started off cold, unless you're prepared to wait a whole day, lol?
Energywise, it would kill to do that for more than a day, even if it was just turning on briefly. But still an interesting thing for emergencies, maybe.
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groingo
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 07:06pm
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The panel heaters are common in Europe, they are good for not taking up much space but I have not actually used one.
The thermostatic power controller that you showed I used to have but the key problem was the temperature sensor was too close to the floor when installed in a standard outlet, it needed to be higher up from the floor, which means your heater will remain on until the floor is warm, but if your power connection is a couple feet off the floor it would work fine.
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 07:15pm
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I would still consider using a heated mat under your bathroom tile (and maybe kitchen tile) for more comfortable floors and to help keep pipes from freezing.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/SunTouch-Floor-Warming-6-ft-x-30-in-120V-Radiant-Floor-War ming-Mat-12000630R/100027475
This one says in the "questions and answers" area that it will draw 1 amp for every 10 square feet of mat. Maybe some of the more electrically knowledgeable members can calculate what that means and how much solar is needed to run it. Also, you may only run it whenever you are away from the cabin for a while.
You can also wrap your pipes with a "heatline" to keep them from freezing.
http://www.heatline.com/?gclid=CP6Rg67Ym8sCFYRrfgod_l8KxQ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 11:56pm
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Quoting: rockies that it will draw 1 amp for every 10 square feet of mat.
Easy... it is 120 VAC. So 1 amp x 120 volts = 120 watts per 10 sq feet of mat.
Re the 250 watt panel heater... If you are thinking of using this off batteries.... a typical pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries have a useful capacity of about 1250 to 1350 watt hours when the discharge is limited to 50% of the total capacity as rated at 75 F. (at 40 F reduce that by 18%). Take the mid point of 1300 and reduce by 15% for inverter loss; we end up with maybe 1100 watt hours available. 1100 watt hours divided by 250 watts = approx 4.4 hours of run time. Sure the thermostat will cause the heater to cycle off and on so the actual use time will be greater. However most inverters allow the batteries to be run down past the 50% charge level because the cheaper inverters are not programmable. So battery damage is a likely outcome of unattended use. IMO.
It must be remembered that resistance heating and batteries are seldom a good mix unless we are only talking about a few minutes at a time as in making a cup or two of coffee or a piece of toast. Unless I'm confused, I seem to recall you have been trying to minimize electrical use and keep the system size down. Any electrical heater flies in the face of that.
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 12:05am
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rockies Someone in the reviews said he monitored it and it's drawing 180 watts. I'm guess that would be per hour and it would stay on most or all of the time?
Not sure if that would be better than a convection heater on a wall that I could program and would maintain the warmth of the things in the area and circulate air/heat. I think that warmth might reach my kitchen faucet pipe better than something underneath the flooring since there will only be a curtain covering the pipe. (My plumbing will be basic. The bathroom won't have "fixed" pipes, per se.)
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 08:12pm
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Hmm. If only somebody who had electrical and solar experience would weigh in on this.......but who? Who?
As a space heater heats the air I would think that any draft would dissipate the heat. A radiant heat source heats the materials it touches, which does take longer to heat up but once warm would hold the heat much longer. Since your pipes are under cabinets and floors/walls I would think that radiant heat would keep the entire system from freezing better than an air heat source.
So, MtnDon, would you recommend the space heater or the radiant floor mat and why?
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2016 09:20pm
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If the prime purpose is to prevent the freezing of water pipes perhaps it would be best to use heat tape and a wrap of insulation on the pipe. That is if the heat tape manufacturer permits adding insulation over the taped pipe; I seem to recall a caution against that once many years ago. But I'd check that and if insulation wrapped around the pipe and heat tape was approved I'd think about that. I believe that would be more energy efficient than heating the air space or the use of a radiant heater.
IMO, unless the pipes to be protected were in the floor the floor heat pad would not be a great choice. I think a warm floor is nice when you step out of the shower, but in floor heat takes a while to warm the flooring and IMO is not well suited for off grid electrical use.
The heatline product rockies linked to is interesting as it is available as either 12 or 24 volt. No inverter required. Less power loss. It can be used with insulation according to their site.
Does that help?
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 03:51am
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MtnDon Just musing about interesting products. Didn't say I'm buying one! Because, yeah, I am going to be very thrifty about my watts until I see how much my system produces over time and various conditions. But other folks with different electric systems might be interested in this little heater so I thought I'd post it.
This heater is from Canada, I believe, and another model is from South Africa. I like looking at products that can be used in America that come from other countries (besides Asia). It's difficult to find space heaters here that are less than 1000 watts.
My non-electric pellet stove will do the job if I have to be away for an overnight during the winter, so it's all good. Fill the hopper, set it on low, and it will heat for 30+ hours. I'm keeping my water appliances and plumbing dead simple, too, which will help quite a bit.
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