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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 02:24am - Edited by: Julie2Oregon
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Now that I've pretty much decided to go with a pellet stove, I've been thinking about making fuel easily accessible. This would be handy for pellets, firewood, coal. Actually, I was thinking about how people way back had coal delivered down a chute into the basement or crawl space of their homes so their heating fuel was right there.
I'd want the bin to store a pallet (ton) of pellets and keep them dry, insect- and dust-free. A ton is 50 40 lb. bags.
So, the bin would need to have a large hinged lid on the outside so that the bags of pellets could be poured into the bin and a little hinged door on the inside of the cabin to access the pellets. The hinge would have to operate like the type on big letterboxes outside of a post office, with the guards on each side of the opening, so that the opening is controlled and everything doesn't come pouring out.
For firewood or coal, the inside access door could be bigger since the fuel is bigger. And perhaps there could be a filter of some sort to keep the dust/debris in the bin and out of the cabin. 
Is this possible? Should the bin be insulated or would that encourage moisture buildup? About what size bin would be necessary to store 2000 pounds of pellets?
(Or at least a few week's supply of firewood, coal, etc. to make life easier for a bit?)
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mossberg fan
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 05:23am
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sounds like a good idea. you might want to leave the pellets right in the bags they come in, slide them down the chute and restack them on a pallet inside. the hopper is probably designed for 40# at a pop, so you could just dump one bag at a time, plus you would have alot less dust. you definitely did your research. does the hopper on the pellet stove your looking at hold more than 40#? if you kept the pellets in bags, you could more efficiently know your usage and how much you have left, etc.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 08:09am
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mossberg fan
Well, I've joined a wood-burning stove forum and just when I think I've gotten it figured out, the folks wonder if either of my two stove finalists will fit the bill due to the electricity requirements. Gah, why does off-grid living have to be a never-ending brain teaser?!
I may end up getting that steampunk/modern sculpture known as the Wiseway pellet stove. Which isn't a bad thing, actually, since it also has the capability of producing hot water, has no auger, fans, or things to break down. I just wish it wasn't so freaky-looking, hahahahaha.
But, I digress. If I do buy the Wiseway, it holds 60 pounds of pellets and I should get 36 hours out of 40 pounds. You're right; it would be nice to see how long a bag lasts -- at least initially. But I'd rather not be slinging bags regularly. My idea -- after running the stove for a couple of weeks and trying a few different brands of pellets -- is to fill the bin with a pallet's worth of loose pellets and be able to access them through a door inside the cabin so I can scoop them out to fill the hopper when needed.
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Jabberwocky
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 08:38am - Edited by: Jabberwocky
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That. Wiseway. is. AWESOME!!!
Hooray for steampunk!!
I just found my pellet stove. Thanks Julie!
As for the OP... the thing you will want to consider in regards to moisture and insulation, is dewpoint temps for your area. Keep in mind that moisture accumulates when cold air meets warm. So if your insulation material is on the inside of the hopper, the moisture will tend to accumulate between it and the inside of the hopper itself. If you insulate on the outside of the hopper, you will need to make sure that it is thick enough to keep the wood itself from reaching the dewpoint.
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 08:40am - Edited by: Jebediah
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Julie
I'm not sure if your door would work in this application(pellets). You might not get it to close properly. All of our silos had a guillotine type door. If you are going to go that route check out some agricultural web sites for grain feeders/ storage as they might have something already designed to suite your needs. We had several small chicken feeders(silos/hoppers) attached to our buildings that had manual augers to feed the birds. I was just a kid so I have no idea how much they held.
I think they make an add on hopper for the wiseway?
Something like this small one.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 08:56am
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Julie, just make sure the hopper feeder runs on low DC voltage. Preferably 12volts. I just typed in 12V pellet stoves and was overwhelmed. Get one that can run on line voltage, but also run on 12V or get one that runs on just 12V and have a battery charger/maintainer on it so when you are on line voltage (grid, generator or solar/inverter) the battery is charging and replenishing the feeder battery.
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mossberg fan
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 09:21am
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i know here on the east coast, the coal suppliers sell coal by the ton in a big wooden box with a guillotine door on the front, then they sell the empty coal boxes when they are done. alot of people use them for doghouses and such. any coal suppliers near your camp?
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 10:09am
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You may do sufficient research to answer your question, but I would be concerned about the moisture absorption into the pellets once you open the plastic bag. Wood does attract moisture from the air. Wet, cold winters in Oregon is going to produce high relative humidity. Why not just build a pleasant looking container next to the stove and use a small scoop to keep the stove filled? I personally would not expose those dry pellets to the air except one 40 pound bag at a time and only then, just before loading into the stove. Wet pellets require energy to dry and the purpose is to heat the cabin, not dry out pellets you paid money to acquire and sweat equity to move next to the heat source (pellet stove). I just think you bin idea is not a great idea for your application and understand why you are looking at this option. Also exposes another opening from the cabin wall to the great cold winter outside temp in the Oregon winter for the good heat to escape and the cold to enter the cabin.
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 10:21am - Edited by: Jebediah
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As Littlecooner mentioned;
If the pellets absorb moisture and expand they surely won't work properly in the wiseway as that was one of the issues they had in the original design in getting the heat/flame to burn the pellets so they would fall from the self feeding chute. The other issue was something about to many unburned pellets falling into the ash pan area.
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beachman
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 10:57am
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I have a pellet stove at my home (on-grid) and a wood stoves at my camp (off-grid). I am not sure about which ones I like the best. It seems the wood stoves give off a little more heat and require maintenance - cleaning periodically. The pellet stove have to be cleaned AT LEAST once a week as ash builds up constantly. Little and Jeb are right on about keeping the pellets dry. If moisture gets into them, they turn to mush - wet sawdust - great for the toilet but not much good to burn. Pellets run me about $6/bag at 40lbs/bag. A bag lasts about a day unless the stove is turned up higher - could go through a lot more on high. At my camp, wood is free and all I have to do is lug it around, cut and chop (much work)
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Just
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 11:14am
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Pellets and fire wood costs money if you cannot cut it yourself .
Why not just get a nice propane wall mounted fireplace . No labor, no storage, just heat.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 12:41pm
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Propane is nice especially for small square footage. Get your supplier to set up the tank outside and get filled up in the fall. Propane prices are down and will go up but for 500 square ft with good insulation and windows it should be economical.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 02:56pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Hmmm..
I moved what I had placed here to a new topic as I thought it deserving of a place of its own.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 05:03pm
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Quoting: MtnDon Another option to alleviate CO concerns is to store pellets in a silo (inaccessible to people entering it) outside of the occupied building, with an auger feed system into the pellet appliance hopper and a CO detector near thehopper.
MtnDon
Yeah, that's pretty much what I had in mind, except I'd have a small access door inside so I could scoop out some pellets to add to the wood stove. I'm going to have a small utility room in the cabin and the outside pellet bin/silo could be on the other side of that. This way, the pellets would be away from the pellet stove and away from the living areas of the cabin.
It would be magic to have the pellets feeding directly into the hopper from the outside bin. But I wonder if that might not potentially clog up the feeder? I've read that folks recommend inspecting the pellets for oddballs and sifting for dust that occurs in shipment before putting them in the hopper because that helps keep the pellet stove burn better, keep from building up ash or creosote, etc.
Yeah, I'll def have a CO meter. With a wood burner and a propane range, it's vital. I might need 2 of them -- one near the pellet stove and one in the kitchen/utility room area.
** Regarding the propane heater recommendations, I really don't want propane. That's kind of off-topic, but I looked into propane last year when I was starting my planning -- the tank needed, available delivery in the area with the cost, and other factors, and decided it wasn't the way I wanted to go. Wood products/appliances are so widely available and used in Oregon that more services and support exist.
Hey, I could change my mind in the years to come. It's a woman's prerogative, you know!  But with the only supplier/delivery service being Amerigas in that area and the way they charge, add crazy fees onto delivery and such, it's just not something I'd want to do at present. I'm not personally equipped to haul and fill a 100 lb. or more propane tank myself. I can do a barbecue size for my range but that's about it.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 05:11pm
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toyota_mdt_tech
I haven't found a pellet stove that works primarily on battery. They're designed to kick in the battery if the AC power fails, and when they run on battery (usually only for a few hours), some of the functions won't work as an energy-saving feature. So, I'm not sure what that would do to the stove in the longterm (ash or creosote accumulating faster, for instance).
I think that the Wiseway, designed for offgrid, is probably the way to go to save energy.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 05:18pm
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beachman
I don't mind vacuuming out the pellet stove. The advantage for me is not having to babysit the wood burner as much, being able to fill it and regulate the heat (low/high), and not having to split and stack wood. Having pallets of bags of pellets delivered is mega easier, as is moving the bags with a hand truck/dolly. I do that now because I buy 50 lb. bags of dog food for my 3 hungry canines, lol.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 05:21pm
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Jabberwocky
LOL, here's to Steampunk! Hmmm, maybe my son and his friends will think I'm remotely "cool" with the Wiseway installed. That fire window thing is kind of a hoot.
I see that US Stove has bought out the gentleman who invented the Wiseway, sigh. The stove is on the Home Depot site in Oregon. Don't know about other states.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 05:33pm
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Jebediah
I've been pondering all of this -- silos, insulation, etc. I'll have a storage shed so my first inclination was to have the bags of pellets all loaded up in that when they were delivered. But then I wondered if I could have the pellets kept dry in a storage bin next to the cabin.
Moisture is death to any pellet stove. Regarding the Wiseway, I've been reading a bunch of experiences at the Hearth forum and what seems to be an issue is that the stove was designed in the PNW and is built in Oregon, meant to burn softwood pellets. It says in the literature that softwood pellets are best.
But people on the East Coast ordered the stove and were burning hardwood pellets, which the Wiseway was having trouble with. Apparently, softwood isn't widely available on the East Coast and they didn't want to pay the cost of having softwood pellets shipped from elsewhere. Hence, the problem. I read reviews from people who DID burn softwood or, at least, a mix of softwood and hardwood, pellets and the stove performed very well for them.
It has something to do with the holes in the burn pots, the length of time the hardwoods burn, and the buildup of ash from the hardwoods in places that were tough to reach.
No shortage of softwoods in Oregon. One of the leading softwoods is Juniper and those trees grow like freaking weeds in southern Oregon, lol. They're something of a menace and using them is actually a service! Another softwood is Ponderosa Pine which is a great wood used in building so there's plenty of sawdust and such for pellets from it. Oregon also has the premier hardwood for pellets -- Douglas Fir. It's prized everywhere. There are a bunch of pellet makers in Oregon so the price of pellets is lower than many places and the quality and availability are great.
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 09:00pm
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Julie
This silo looks like it can hold at least a pallet load.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 11:25pm
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Jebediah
Holy crap, and launch missiles, too! LOL
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 27 Feb 2016 11:10am
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Just did a little research on Alaskan outdoors forum. It appears people are very happy with Wise way pellet stoves. I'm going to try and contact users in Yellowknife to get their opinion as I have been told by Wise way there is half a dozen up there.
Anyone installing should consider the dampers they refer to control heat better
I just wanted to mention a cord of wood in Yellowknife is around 300 bucks
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 01:32am
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Coyote Flats
I've been chatting with someone who's been using the Wiseway fulltime in a trapper's cabin in New England and absolutely loves it.
Everything is manual and it's dead simple. It would be ideal for me because it's manufactured in Medford, Oregon. Shoot, if I needed a part or accessory for it, I could literally drive over there and be back with the part by lunchtime. Unless, of course, the local sellers had what I needed in the city 25 miles away. Then, I'd be back in less than 2 hours.
No auger, control panel, or blowers to break down. Keep it clean and you're in business, apparently. Burn softwood and you don't need to clean it every day, either, because it burns clean.
I like the fact that you can get a water jacket for it to produce hot water.
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Coyote Flats
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 09:37am
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Julie2Oregon
Ok sounds good I have my local pellet stove/ wood stove supplier adding it to there line up
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