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michey
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2010 07:01pm
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I built my outhouse this past summer and it is over a clay based ground. I dug it out approx 4ft deep and it is packed clay and slow draining after a heavy rain. This outhouse gets very little use and is basically a hunting camp for a couple of extended weekends during the winter months and several weekends during the summer months. This past weekend, there was about 3-5 inches of rain holding in the hole. Is this a problem for me or is this ok? It does eventually drain, just curious.. Thanks for reading.
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islandguy
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2010 08:24pm
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its ok. human waste is, like all organic material, very biodegradable. Outhouses are green BECAUSE they dont drain. Its the introduction of so much water in waste systems that creates the problem, which is to seep effluent into the water supply, either surface or aquafer. Septic systems are designed to spread the liquid effluent over a large area to minimise or eliminate this problem, while allowing the solids to biodegrade into soil. Out houses do not use water, so very little effluent is produced, and rainwater seeping into your system would be more of a problem if it DID drain faster. You may wish to throw a little sawdust into the mix though, which will absorb some liquids, speed biodegradation, and sweeten the odiferousness common to the privy. Good luck.
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michey
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2010 10:25pm
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thanks for the quick response. My place is in Maine and I forgot to mention FROST. I am assuming that this is ok as well based on your information. I do realize I should have gone deeper but i gave up early due to the ground being solid clay. This privy will get minimal use and I think it will last me quite a while. I have been putting wood stove ash on it after the weekend stays.
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steveqvs
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2010 11:09am
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Some lime or i have also heard of people using charcoal ash to help with the breakdown also.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2010 09:47pm
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Does lime really work?
How much is 'some'?
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2010 10:23pm - Edited by: MikeOnBike
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Lime doesn't help with the decomposition. It kills the bacteria. I think it only takes a sprinkle after each use.
Add a handful of leaves or sawdust to aid aerobic decomposition. Anaerobic decomposition, in our gut, smells. Aerobic decomposition, in a compost toilet, not so much.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2010 10:36pm
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I think lime makes interesting artifacts for future archeologists.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2010 10:40pm
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Lime keeps the odor down as well!
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steveqvs
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2010 03:15pm
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yes just a sprinke of lime or charcoal ash with help with the odors.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2010 03:50pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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There seems to be a lot of conflicting info on lime use in outhouses. Lime use is promoted heavily as a method to decrease odors. I do believe though that using lime in the pit is counterproductive to the breakdown, to the composting of the waste in the pit. Lime dissolved in water can be used as a disinfectant as it kills bacteria. So it seems that unless it is highly selective (doubtful) putting lime in the pit will kill bacteria down there. And that stops or at least slows the composting of the pit.
I believe frequent lime use will mean more rapid filling of the pit which leads to having to dig another and move the outhouse.
We have a composting toilet that is basically an outhouse pit on a smaller scale. The chamber under the seat is sealed when the lid is down. It uses a special lid with very little space if any under the seat when it is closed. The same could be done to a standard seat by adding a rubber gasket. There is provision for air to enter the holding chamber. It is screened to keep insects out. There is a tall 4 inch diamter stack that goes straight up through the roof to about three feet above the highest part of the roof. The toilet is left lid down when not in use. The shed the toilet is in never smells like a toilet. However if one goes up on the roof and takes a whiff from above the stack, it certainly does smell like a crapper. We use no chemicals in that composting toilet, not even bleach or standard chemical cleaners as they could kill off some bacteria if dripped into the pit.
So it's my opinion that if one's outhouse smells it probably needs to have its pit ventilation re-engineered. The vent system allows natural convection venting to work. The pipe should be no smaller than 4 inch and straight up. Bends will cause restriction and slow the venting.
As for water in the pit, is it possible to use earthen berms to keep the ground water out of the pit? That would be best.
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bugs
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2010 11:32am - Edited by: bugs
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If you have "water" standing in the pit for long periods of time what you will get is a highly enriched (eutrophic) untreated sewage slurry which may, I say may, be a breeding ground for beasties ie aquatic bugs that can survive in such anaerobic "aquatic" habitats. There is a regular occurrence of calls from picnic grounds where the pit toilets become invested with rat tailed maggots (Syrphidae) crawling out of the pit to pupate. Seems to gross patrons out and put them off their visitations.
These little guys range about an inch long with a 2 inch tail. They breathe through the tail sticking out of the slurry so they can munch on the errr particles and bits.
Sorry for the lecture.
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RnR
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2010 11:47am
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Thanks Mtndon for this detailed explaination about the use of Lime and your composting toilet. There was a leftover bag of lime lying around that we haven't used much and I was wondering what to do with it and if it was beneficial or not. We are in the process of converting to a composting toilet, but I think that the outhouse will still be used on occasion.
Bugs, thanks for that informative post as well. Wow, rat-tailed maggots... sounds like something out of a B-Movie!
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larryh
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2010 08:43am
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Where I live the outhouse I have tends to get water in it mostly in a hard rain in winter. In summer it seems to be less prone to that. I have it on a slight rise to help prevent water from reaching the pit, but somehow it can still do so. It tends to go away after a few days normally. I do use lime and find the discussion interesting. I am currently interested in sawdust toilets that are composted. Somehow I have been reluctant to start putting quantities of sawdust or other organic matter in the outhouse as it seemed it would fill it a lot faster than otherwise?
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michey
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2010 01:26pm
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Latest update: Was up for hunting season recently on T-Giving and the water level was higher than I would like. I think I may be relocating the outhouse come spring time. It appears to be holding approx 1.5' of "water". I was gowing to back fill around the outside base of the outhouse again, but where it is just got 2' of snow. I am pretty certain there are no openings around the base of the outhouse for water to enter. I think I may be dealing with ground water. My solution will be to fill it with hay in the spring and back fill the hole and search out higher ground on the porperty. Any suggestions? This is a seldomly used cabin and I don't need a deep hole. This current hole is approx 3.5' deep.
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larryh
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2010 03:13pm
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You might be a good candidate like me for the sawdust type composting toilet. Some have them in buildings just like outhouses only no pit. Strangely I have two outhouses. One a pip privy and the other was built as a "pail privy" when I thought that it was the most sanitary version. Which it most likely is. In the old days though they were plowing it under as the pail needed emptying. I tired digging small pits and burying it but the whole thing was pretty disgusting. But now that I know how the sawdust privy works, which I had never heard of till lately, I think it would make a fine use for that which now has garden tools in it.. Especially in summer. I do recall that I built it close to winter and it froze up on me and that was a real mess. Not sure what one would do if you had frozen sawdust in your pail to empty? So it would be best used as they show in little home built setups like a toilet in the home for winter which is what I am going to build. It was 10 degrees here this morning and I am always surprised at how if you dress warm the wood seat really never seems terribly cold like many would think. But come night time I really would prefer to stay inside.
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Scott k
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2010 07:34pm
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Where my Wife and I have are rustic cabin we can not have a out house so we got a brand new Porto-potty for an out house. Maybe this is an idea someone else can use?
cheers!
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larryh
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2010 08:32pm
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Scott,
I just put a photo yesterday or so of my just built Sawdust potty. Its been in use for nearly five days now and to my complete amazement it has absolutely no smell and when properly covered and flatten after use its really quite a great system. What does your porta potty use or is it just a holding tank? That would be like the old commodes which I have never wanted to use due to the smelly conditions an rather nasty cleaning issues.
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bushbunkie
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2011 04:43pm
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Check out the lovable loo website...similiar idea but uses peat moss and gives you plans to build your loo...my wife could not believe that it didn"t smell....she's sold on it.
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larryh
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2011 11:32pm
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I had just read that Peat moss might be a good choice and it seems like it would cover better than the dry wood chips for pet bedding I have been using on my trial run. I think they might take up more space as well. I really intended to get some wood mill sawdust that is old eventually but in this cold winter I am settling for things easy to purchase and haul home. I am surprised at how far a bag of that pet bedding goes in the sawdust potty. Its been about a month now and the first bag is still about a third full.
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bugs
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2011 10:39am
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Peat moss is fairly acidic from what I have read. It is also mined and essentially non renewable. We have seen peat moss "mines". It is essentially open pit mining on a small scale.
For the above reasons we have gone with aspen shavings used for pet bedding which we have convinced ourselves is a greener alternative. It seems to provide reasonable "coverage" and absorption. If a person can find a source of old sawdust that would be the best for these purposes.
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larryh
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2011 11:05am
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I am a bit surprised that the Humanmanure Handbook author suggested its use since he seems to be pretty aware of interactions of various materials generally?
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Scott_T
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2011 05:24pm
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quick link for anyone needing it http://www.humanurehandbook.com/
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