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groingo
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2015 10:40pm
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Well, have been off grid over a year and shortly after I was curious how much it would cost to get back on.....$639.00 a done deal but now a year later I asked the same question and how things have changed.
First the install basic rate has jumped from $639.00 to $725.00 but there are now some catches, first the length of the drop was 140 feet but PSE now limits it to just 124 feet without engineering.
Now you also have to have it engineered, and inspected by L&I but before that there needs to be a site inspection and if approved it will cost around $2500.00!
With that now out of the question I have also given up on the Tesla Power Wall which according to the guys at Solar City today (Elon is on the board of), the 7 kwh will not be happening because they don't think it will be profitable...so the search continues for the battery that can actually deliver.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2015 12:03am
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LFP.
But you have to deliver the cash to the seller.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2015 06:33am
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The Powerwall was not intended for Off Grid usage as such, YET. Their first offerings will be for Grid Connected then followed by Off-Grid capable battery banks. There are many opinions on it but considering they aren't really available yet and no scale of users yet for feedback...
You know about Never Buying a Version 1.0 of anything, sorta like never buying the First Model Year of any car...
Off Grid Usage The dream of many environmentalists is to live off grid. The Powerwall is not the tool to enable off grid living. As I mentioned earlier, the solar energy production varies wildly during the year in the United States. This problem would not exist along the equator. But in the U.S. to go off grid with the Powerwalls would probably fill an entire house and / or double the solar capacity. The Powerwall could help with an existing off grid situation. During the day in the summer months the solar panel excess energy could be saved for electrical needs at night. One or a number of Powerwalls could be used in order to not use the generators and fossil fuels during the summer months in the evenings. REF: https://teslaowner.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/powerwall-a-middling-product/
Here is a Good Review worth reading on various Hybrid Battery Systems: Complete-battery-storage-comparison-and-review
There is Good News sorta though... for some anyways... The Canadian Dollar is @ rock bottom right now (0.74 to the US$) which translates into 25% Savings for US Buyers. Rolls Surette Batteries are Made in Canada... Sadly still only FLA or AGM type batteries available.
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creeky
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2015 03:29pm
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that's not a terrible review. But it's partly full of bull dung (inverter nonsense). and that off grid quote is also pure nonsense. but ...
there is a princeton u study done on off grid battery tech. it concluded, as did the study above, that lfp was the best, most economical choice for today's off grid user.
as I've been pointing out for over a year. balqon has plug and play modules available now. yes. your upfront costs are higher. but your utility (ease of use, efficiency) and long lifespan more than make up for the cost.
why lfp (lifepo4):
* higher discharge rate. so if you want to run a dishwasher or fridge or motor. lfp is far more efficient than lead acid.
* low self discharge. leaving your property for some months? discharge your lfp pack to 60%. go away with everything disconnected. you could even hide your panels away.
* no maintenance.
*extremely efficient charging. ideal for limited sun or generator based charging.
etc etc etc
groingo. balqon used to have a 2.4kw. that would give you 1.5 overnight. there's a 5kw. I'm looking at the 9. but have thought to use a 5 for a couple of years and then add another one.
sadly my lead acid pack, now mere months from being 5 years old and beaten all to hang, continues to perform as poorly as it did when it was new. dang.
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groingo
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2015 04:32pm
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Creeky:
If your going to go with Balqon you better do it soon, just looked at their stock and financial report and they are teetering on the edge of closing their doors.
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AK Seabee
Member
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2015 10:32pm
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Creeky, would a 5kw balqon power a dorm fridge and ceiling fan overnight?
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 05:55pm
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Jeez, really. I hope Balqon has a big going out of business sale then. I gotta say though. They've been teetering for years now. The boat people were saying the same thing in 2010. The RV folks in 2012. Somehow they keep ticking.
AK. The 5kw would run tv, lights, a real fridge, a ceiling fan and your nannies, er, massager for days. Gives you 3 kw usable. You could run a load in the dishwasher (mine uses 2kw, heating the water electrically).
Or, a dorm fridge, lights, fan etc for about a week.
I have 3kw with my lead acid pack now. But I'm a bit under storaged. 5 years of adding gizmos has run my electrical use up to where I like to use 4kw/day. But can get by on 2.5. Or really compress things to 1.5. But me no like 1.5. No tv. No internet. Just lights, water, fridge, routers. Bah humbug.
Nice thing about lithium. you can add another pack any time you like later on. no worries. if your needs increase.
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groingo
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 06:28pm
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Creeky:
Their stock is already a sub penny stock (yesterday 0.320) with a 1 million dollar cap, unless they find an angle soon the clock is ticking.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 06:31pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: creeky Somehow they keep ticking.
There is some kind of a connection between Winston and Balqon. If it is true or not, I have been told that Winston has propped up Balqon because of the retail market presence Balqon provides.
I think B will disappear with no fanfare. I would be cautious of sending them money as delivery has been slow at times in the past as often the US end would not order from the Chinese end until they had some sales to fill. If anyone is going to deal with them use a credit card so the bank will go to bat if things don't go well. Not a debit card.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2015 03:55am
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Does anyone on the forum here know anyone who has purchased their lithium batteries for solar and how they're working out?
It seems strange that Balqon isn't putting some effort into getting their products and services out there, doing some marketing and advertising after the Tesla fanfare. They'd have ready customers -- or is it that they really aren't able to expand production to accommodate an uptick in demand?
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2015 09:27am
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I know of two users who bought from Balqon. Batteries are fine, service sucked.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2015 09:29am
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they keep updating their product line and their website. and they are the official Winston battery rep in N.A.
the new packs look nice eh. boy. 6kw. so 3kw/day for 20 years for $3750. That's 15 bucks a month amortized.
Compare that to my $1800 lead acid pack. Also 3kw. It looks to go 5 years and that'll be $30 month amortized.
So. Better power performance, both charging and discharging. At half the cost*. That's a gamble worth taking.
And remember. Lead acid is at best 80% efficient charging while LFP is 96%. So in real terms it's like getting an extra 15% bigger solar system for free.
* I'm not sure the lithium batts will last 20 years. Sure on paper they do. But I had real early lithium batts on my video camera. They worked great right up to year 5. And then failed. So, different anodes, cathodes, storage medium for sure ... but I think 10 years is probably a good realistic place to draw the amortization/lifespan line in your calculations.
Julie2, I'm with you. I agree they haven't capitalized on the Tesla buzz. But there are some huge lfp storage facilities being built right now. Like 100 million dollar installs. This might, as you suggest, be creating a squeeze on availability.
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2015 02:42pm
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Sent Inquirey by email to Balqon, they replied giving me a phone number to contact....the number has been disconnected.
Will look closer at Winston.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2015 05:48pm
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I'm so interested in their 12V 5KwH battery. It would be perfect for me.  Well, maybe by late Spring when I'm building, the picture will be clearer and there will be more players in the lithium market.
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