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handcrafted
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2015 12:18am
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So I'm back off grid for a year now after raising the kids and now their out and on their own. Twenty something years ago we started out with a new travel trailer and bused our water and used generator for power and grew that into a home with power and running water. Now, a year ago, I decided to go back off grid and have found that short of a solar system (which is in the works) I've spent as much a month in the past year on my fuel for charging my battery bank as I did living on the grid. But I still prefer this life style off grid. And I have my one man cabinet shop business run here as well. So here's what I've got:
(6) T105's series parallel 12v. @ approx. 705amh
3500kw champion genny
10kw generac genny
commercial battery charger with continuous 50amp charge rate and 2amp charge rate
Zantrax pro 2000 4000 surge inverter
Normal day wake up and on batteries, make coffee, fill thermos turn coffee maker off. On computer until around 1:00 then turn 3500kw genny and charge battery bank at 2amp to 50amp rate on and off to bring them up. Once above 12.9 I can keep the charger at 50amp. I found a couple months ago that dropping 2 of my six batteries and getting down to four I can charge much more efficiently. more to follow. whats your story/setup
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beachman
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2015 10:09am
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Go solar. You will find it awesome! This assuming that you have enough sun.
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creeky
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2015 10:48am
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i've grown my off grid power system to 2kw over the six years. starting 5 years ago with 1 kw i now have
2 - 1kw panel sets (4x250, mono) (48 and 96v respectively)
2 - morningstar mppt 60s
6 - crown 395s for 1200 amp/hr give or take
1 - 75 amp charger (used for around 50-70 hrs/yr) "powermax"
1 - ats "powermax"
1 - tbs 1600 inverter
what I like about the powermax charger is I was able to adjust a pot inside the box to up the charge voltage to 14.7. I use it only in the late fall / early winter so the higher voltage gives the batteries more of what they want. and will be able to lower it to 14.1 when I change to lithium.
the crowns have been great. on the 5th year of beating them up. Do look forward to replacing them with a lithium batt. but as they are working fine it's hard to spend the money. still. nice to think that the next battery pack I buy will be the last battery pack I buy. well. nice in a sense.
i used to use an electric kettle in the a.m. but I was given a small espresso maker that uses the stove (propane), so my morning is get up, make a cafe au cream. surf. check that the batts are doing okay. I usually drop to 12.55 overnight. It's cloudy today, the fridge (electric, 100w when running) just started, the internet is up, I'm running the laundry washer (the satellite modem uses 45w/hr, the washer about 100), my batts are at 13.38 and I'm making about 350 watts.
Sunday is sunny all day, so will run the dishwasher. I wait until the batts are charged, that way I can run full off the panels without drawing from the batteries. I bought extra coffee mugs so i don't have to hand wash waiting for sun 
My batteries have made it to float every day but two this month. Gotta love summer.
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groingo
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2015 04:29pm - Edited by: groingo
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Was just evaluating off grid vs on grid cost and off grid is more than double thanks to propane, geny gas and ice with the single biggest cost being propane.
If it were just about cost I wouldn't be here, I'd be just another lemming following everyone else over the cliff, but personally I prefer not to follow and make my own path.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2015 05:01pm - Edited by: Malamute
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I've had both solar and grid, at this point grid is the cheapest by a lot, considering pumping water and such. I average about $60-$80/mo for power, and thats running AC full blast all summer and running sprinklers a lot to stay green out front, running an electric heater all winter in my bath house and a small 6 gal electric water heater for the kitchen water. One 250 gal tank of propane lasts a year for bath water heater and kitchen stove.
Have gen for backup, and would like to have solar ability at some point, but it isnt very cost effective at this point in my situation.
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handcrafted
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2015 05:43pm
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Great replies from all and a nice diversity. What I have found through tenure and graduation of the school of hard knocks is you cannot put a price tag on experience. We all need to be our own MacGyver type of man and woman. I've found the new rage for solar being accepted more and more with the uncle sam involved rebates and power company offers that the exorbitant cost of solar is strictly may I repeat STRICTLY related to their profit margins. I've found a many good google searches and solar arrays are not that much and with a little you tube learning and few special tools one can install their own system and at a fairly reasonable price. Instructables.com is and awesome sight for diy's. And yes I would have to agree that on grid is the least expensive next to solar and I'm paying about the same in fuel for the genny as I was my power company, but at it's my choice and once the solar arrays up and running voila. Propane yes too is an expense I incur and I'm working on hho system to eliminate that cost as well. Hydrogen while it a volatile compound it's really no more than gasoline you just need to know what your doing and take precautions, and while I know this lifestyle is not for everyone and not everybody has an ultimate set of tools, maybe we can help our neighbor and learn from one another. More to follow I have go earn money the old fashion way: make some sawdust. ciao for now
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creeky
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# Posted: 16 Aug 2015 09:58am
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i live off grid because it would have been $50k to get electricity to where I am. as a result my taxes are $3k/yr less than my previous home. My heating bill is about the same.
I spent $5k on my first 1kw solar system. Amortized now I'm under 100 bucks a month. I still have 20 years to go. So I dispute that off grid solar is more expensive than grid power. The only advantage to grid power is you have almost unlimited access. So pile on the gadgets, appliances, tools. Leave lights on. Don't use power bars. Waste as much as you like.
I would suggest though, there's something to be said for being thoughtful. there's much to be said for being aware.
One of the reasons I chose to live off grid was to get out of that "consume consume consume" trap. you meet people every day who value you based on the worth of your clothes/car/house.
I prefer to value people on their morals/ideas/ability to cook me good food.
The thing I like about getting your solar system to "just big enough." I don't buy ice. I don't use nearly the propane. I have a propane bbq. and a propane stove. In the washroom I have a propane water heater. Combined they don't cost me 100 bucks in propane a year. And I cook a lot. Though I'm not slow cooking ribs as much this year and that has saved me some.
I should probably shower more.
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groingo
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# Posted: 16 Aug 2015 12:52pm - Edited by: groingo
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I messed up by setting my on grid power use bar to low by using so little electricity, PSE congratulated me prior to going off grid for being their lowest power use of 4 million customers and rewarded myself and everyone with multiple rate increase every year after....that didn't set well with me.
Pulling the PSE plug meant finding alternatives and Propane filled the gap for heat and cooking plus unlike being tied to PSE I could choose who I got my energy from.
Having to buy ice has been a temporary thing while I find another way to cool food as my water both well and stream that I had used for cooling has warmed to the mid 50's year round.
The thing I keep reminding myself is I didn' t do this just to save money, I did it because I just wanted to see if I could do it and with that come more challenges, and with me that is what I really enjoy doing.
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creeky
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# Posted: 17 Aug 2015 09:36am
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Quoting: groingo I did it because I just wanted to see if I could do it
that really is what its about.
Plus, we're making a mess of the planet. so to use less as an individual, if everybody uses less, makes a difference.
groingo have you thought about doing one of those freezer / fridge conversions? putting a new thermostat on a small freezer is pretty simple. and if guys who are running them for 100 watts a day are correct, your solar system should have no trouble with that. save on some ice.
craigslist has 'em pretty often. walmart has an energy star 5 cu ft on sale for 200 bucks. i dunno?
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 17 Aug 2015 11:16am
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I just finished reading the book by Cam Tamworth. He was finding he had so much solar power available during the summer he put in a couple of window AC units.
I don't recall seeing a breakdown on what it cost for the whole system but one can assume it was not cheap.
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groingo
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# Posted: 17 Aug 2015 11:26am
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Creeky:
Tried that several years ago using a thermostatic power controller, thing was it uses the same compressor my compact fridge does and when it starts it uses 225 watts then in a few minutes is settles down to 45 watts, thing is, they cycle a lot during the day and in 24 hours I had used 960 watts with it 1/2 filled with frozen foods.
I also built a 3 inch Styrofoam box around it but no difference, it seemed to pick up the heat from the compressor itself when I ran an infrared check, so the only real way to keep it cool was to isolate the compressor away from the freezer...so went to plan B which is to build something that doesn't use electricity.....as usual.
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creeky
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# Posted: 17 Aug 2015 02:23pm
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wilbour I use an a/c unit. in fact the 5k btu unit (400w) is running above me right now. man. nice heat wave. doesn't help I just came in from a paddle on the creek. hash tag amazing summer.
anyway.
I have another but haven't needed to install it. insulation. shade. meh. I can live with that... last night I had to run the fan in my winter bedroom for a 1/2 hour. it got too cool so I turned it off.
groingo. What? My 10 cu ft fridge doesn't use 960w/day. well. okay. it uses that in the summer. but I have all the summer sun to keep it going. But in the winter, my EM100 tells me it uses 500w a day.
That was kind of the funny thing about this past winter. I put 3" of polyiso over my back door and spray foamed the cracks. As a result my studio used 1/2 the propane (night time heat). And 1/2 again more electricity. The studio stayed between 18C and 26 all winter. (Okay there were a few days when I had to open the doors when the wood stove took off and it was 34 -- oh, er, that's 70 to 76F, 84-90 when the wood stove takes off).
But the warmer studio temps meant I used more electricity to cool the fridge. always sometink eh?
speaking of sometink. remember how fridges had cooling coils at the back. Now they hide them in the side walls. I have to leave room for air to move along the sides of my fridge to remove the heat. I wonder if your freezer had a similar arrangement.
boy. wouldn't it be nice to run your well water over the condenser coils for your fridge. now that would be a win-win. cheaper to cool fridge. plus warm water.
i always wondered how those freezer fridge guys got that 100w a day. seemed like. well. you know. something was a little smelly about all that. maybe somebody can 'splain it to us.
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