City of Huntsville Reportedly Threatens Veteran with Arrest for Living off the Grid

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Small Cabin Forum / Off-Grid Living / City of Huntsville Reportedly Threatens Veteran with Arrest for Living off the Grid


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sho3360 Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 05:24pm - Edited by: sho3360 Reply I admire this young couple, and pray that things work out for them. http://truthinmedia.com/city-of-huntsville-reportedly-threatens-veteran-with-arrest-f or-living-off-the-grid/?utm_source=jes&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=jes25

Salty Craig Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 06:17pm Reply His first mistake is no permit. I believe in freedom and few laws but... The law says you must have a building permit. So he's basically a criminal in regards to not obeying the law. Secondly, if the law says you must have a sewer, and as much as I hate laws.... I say hook up to the darn sewer. Third, the laws says potable water..... You know where this is going. If you want to live like a hillbilly then move to the hills. My heart goes out to him, because we do live in a Country that's supposed to be free. But, what if everyone in town wanted to live like that. Place would look and smell like a dump. Before anyone attacks me for siding with the government, let me say..... We are a Nation of laws and not of men. The more I ponder on that sentence, the less sense it makes. But the moral of the story is....we are all in the same boat rather we served our Country or not. There's laws, abide by them. And if you don't like the laws, either stop voting for a police state government or move. My thanks for his service.

bldginsp Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 07:59pm Reply The story doesn't clarify exactly what charges were brought by the city. The reporter makes it sound like he was charged for being off-grid, I think the reality is he was charged for violating basic sanitation laws, such as they are. The more I contemplate the phrase 'government of laws, not of men' the more sense it makes to me. A government of men (and women) makes arbitrary decisions based on the will of the people with the authority to do so, a government of laws limits what government workers can do within a set of rules agreed upon beforehand. In the case of our veteran here he is being charged with breach of laws that apply to everyone else, that are accepted by the local voters. But the story makes it sound like he's being unfairly victimized because they just don't like him. Maybe the only idiot in this scenario is the reporter.

Kudzu Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 08:05pm Reply What a dumbass, he had to know that there were restrictions and covenants in the city limits. I have a cabin in the county in Alabama and the only permit I needed was for sewer, I had to install a septic tank. He is in the city limits, how would you like to live in a subdivision with a bunch of people dumping raw sewage. That's what happens when you don't have codes, restrictions and covenants. Like I said, I have a cabin in the county and the only restriction and inspection I had was for a septic tank. I was all for this, keeps people upstream of me from dumping into a ditch, creek or stream. Believe me, they would and do, it is staggering how disrespectable some people are of the vey land they live on. Another thing, being a Veteran, I am sick of people playing that card, there has not been a draft since the 1970's and anyone in the service sould have known what they were signing up for. Rant over, carry on.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 08:14pm Reply That 'news' outlet is just playing the veteran card to add to the emotionalism. Vets are required to obey the same laws as the rest of us.

Littlecooner Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 08:26pm Reply I have no symphony for this guy. They need to force him to connect to the city services or move. I live just a few minutes from Huntsville. It has grown to one of the best cities in america. Populated by engineers and manufacturing that began based around the space program. Like the article states, I know he can find property outside the city limits that is only 15-20 minutes away where this life style is ok and some properties within 30 -45 minutes that are in the wilds of the Appalachian mountains were he could like like the pioneers of the 1800's and be total accepted in the community. But not in downtown Huntsville. A rouge Idiot here, thought he would move into the big city and live like a rat. NO, let him move out where the small cabin people are and live off grid. We all have a choice in where we live and no one has the right to move somewhere and take a stand to change every rule that was in place when they moved there.

toyota_mdt_tech Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 09:02pm Reply Obviously, living off the grid isnt illegal. I suspect if there is sewer, he would be required to hook up. Otherwise. septic. It doesnt look like its inside a city limit, but it may be. And I suspect there is no sewer, so he would need to get a septic system. There may be a provision for a privvy. I wonder if he has one now? Does he have a well? He collects rain water. i know that clear plastic tank in the sunlight will grow algae. I'd like to know the actual laws broken. A mfg home is already been signed off so to speak. So its not that.

littlehouseontheprarie Member	# Posted: 18 Jun 2015 10:48pm Reply It is guys like this that want to break the rules that make all off grid people look like schmucks. Very simple move out to the country where you do not have all of the regulations.No matter how remote he thinks his property is.It is still in the city limits.Follow the rules. Too many rules in the city for me to live by.I would rather not have a neighbor for miles

Ruggles Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 12:30am Reply You people wouldn't know freedom if it jumped up and bit you in the ass. Bye................... Jeffry Ruggles SMSgt, USAF Retired

Julie2Oregon Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 05:26am Reply Yes, "off the grid" means just that -- away from the city/city services. "Freedom" isn't doing whatever you want and saying to heck with everything and everyone else. There is always a measure of responsibility that comes with freedom; otherwise, no one would be truly free. I've seen a lot of these types of stories around lately since friends have sent them to me. And they've always revolved around someone insisting that it's their "right" to be "off-the-grid" while not complying with one or a number of health codes. Dumping waste, polluting, and creating a dangerous situation for one's neighbors isn't a right or a joke! One lady in a residential neighborhood with a small lot was refusing to have her sewer line fixed and declared herself "off-the grid." God knows what was happening with her waste! I'll be the first to admit that the govt codes can be hard to navigate because they're built on a presupposed norm, such as a certain-sized house and family usage, and go on from there. Building something quite different from that norm can be costly and frustrating. But some of these codes actually exist because people did some awfully stupid things with terrible injury to themselves, others, or the environment. Add lawyers and stir vigorously.

Julie2Oregon Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 05:34am Reply Oh, there was one making the rounds several months ago about the State of Oregon suing a guy for collecting rainwater. Those who actually read the story learned that this wasn't a guy with water barrels and a cistern collecting water from his roof. He basically had built a dam and water lagoons and was purposely diverting millions of gallons of water from his near neighbors and the city's water supply from his place out in the country! The state had tried to work with him for a while and get him to stop before taking him to court. And yet, people refused to READ and were shaming Oregon for picking on "that poor man!"

PatrickH Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 07:45am Reply Quoting: Julie2Oregon Those who actually read the story learned that this wasn't a guy with water barrels and a cistern collecting water from his roof. He basically had built a dam and water lagoons and was purposely diverting millions of gallons of water from his near neighbors and the city's water supply from his place out in the country! --People like this are the reason why soon enough rainwater collection will be illegal everywhere.They are too small minded to understand how their actions DO affect everyone around them.People complain about rules and regulations all the time,But the reason we have them is because of actions like this, The guy in the story doesn't realize yet, but there will be a bunch of new laws written just for people like him soon enough ,making it harder for everyone else. Sheesh!

Steve_S Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 08:11am Reply Anyone here notice how the News Reporter's have all deteriorated into Dramatics, Tabliodisms, "Unnamed Sources" (is it the Janitor at the Whitehouse ?). They can't even Spell Check half the time, grammar & punctuation is a mystery to them... Where isn't Were... Print media is dying a painful death and it's more about Big Flashy Headlines (often misleading) to "sell the news". Then there is the agenda's being forwarded by the media (relative to media groups ownership)... It's all gone terribly downhill and sometimes it's just painful to read some of the articles being published.

Littlecooner Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 09:08am - Edited by: Littlecooner Reply Steve_S. You just nailed it. The media now on all sides word the article to make the headlines and skew the facts. They do not tell all the story, withholding important facts and stretching the truth. Brian Williams did not get a patent on fabrication of news stories. When I was a small lad, Huntsville was a small, rural farming town with a courthouse, like a lot of towns in the south. Then the space program started and the Redstone Arsenal came to town. And they hired a couple of very bright city planner (Fanning) and traffic Engineer (Kramer). No old 1930 shot housed, no old narrow streets, etc. The city grew and still growing at a rapid rate. All is "new" and streets are wide, and placed and designed to quickly handle the traffic. To me, the city is a state of the art city for the US of A. It got that way by adopting and enforcing good, common sense rules for development and now, everyone wants to move to Huntsville, were the current jobs are state of the arts manufacturing and the houses are all nice, manicured lawn residences (no slums). Then this guy moves his mobile home inside the city limits and makes everyone on this forum look bad to the public. I hope they put the dude in the county jail while they remove his mobile home from his own property if his does not follow the rules he knew were in place when he started this "black eye" for the small cabin forum people. Like I said, he could be living like he wants to and be total accepted in the community and still be in downtown Huntsville in less that 30 minutes. Anyone who understands the facts on this forum will not support this guy. Don't believe 100 % of the media reports. In 1950, Huntsville had a population of 16,437, and in 2010 a population of 180,000+ and the surrounding metro area has grown to 435,000 + in the area that was all just rural farm land in 1950. The Rocket City of America, we put men on the moon.

Julie2Oregon Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 09:15am Reply Quoting: Steve_S Print media is dying a painful death and it's more about Big Flashy Headlines (often misleading) to "sell the news". Then there is the agenda's being forwarded by the media (relative to media groups ownership)...It's all gone terribly downhill and sometimes it's just painful to read some of the articles being published. Yes, as a former newspaper editor, it drives me insane. There are no standards. A lot of these "publications," though, are simply vanity sites that spew garbage and have people who write for free. I wish people would think about what's written and not believe everything out there!

Julie2Oregon Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 09:19am Reply Quoting: PatrickH --People like this are the reason why soon enough rainwater collection will be illegal everywhere.They are too small minded to understand how their actions DO affect everyone around them.People complain about rules and regulations all the time,But the reason we have them is because of actions like this, The guy in the story doesn't realize yet, but there will be a bunch of new laws written just for people like him soon enough ,making it harder for everyone else. Sheesh! The state encourages rainwater collection off one's own buildings because that means the property owners use less water from city and other sources! I don't think that jerks like this are threatening that mindset but if enough egocentric people start seeing how much they can get away with, I guess you never know!

groingo Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 01:02pm Reply First BIG MISTAKE was being in any city limits, had he been in rural area there would be much less problems. I'd sell the land and re locate to a less regulated area, not worth the headaches awaiting him.

FishSeeker Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 04:15pm Reply Quoting: Ruggles You people wouldn't know freedom if it jumped up and bit you in the ass. Bye................... Jeffry Ruggles SMSgt, USAF Retired You sir of all people should understand what freedom is. Freedom does nor give you the right to skirt the laws of this country. The fact that he's a veteran has nothing to do with the story except to try to elicit sympathy by a rag tag reporter. There are places you can go live like this if that's what you wish.

leonk Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 05:39pm Reply I am pleased to see how reasonable most of the people who post here are... much better than the comments on the article page. Even my blood was pumping after reading it, now I calmed down a bit

Bzzzzzt Member	# Posted: 19 Jun 2015 05:40pm Reply I think the big issue here is that he has not paid to get a permit for the trailer. I can't see how they can force you to hook up water and sewer. I'd want to see the actual law that says you should if I were him. Laws regulating the placement of trailer houses are very common though. I do agree we are a nation of laws and we should abide by them the best we can. And as for the news media, they tell lies, tell lies to cover up the lies and tell lies to cover up the cover ups. I have personally witnessed a couple things that have later gotten on the local TV news and wondered if they were even in the same state as the news item.

JDPugh Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 01:01am Reply Ok.....I get it, he is breaking the local ordinances by not being "hooked up" to city services and doing so right in the city limits no doubt he is doomed to lose this fight. But let us assume his mobile home is allowed and he is "hooked up" but chooses not to use city services. Instead uses composting toilet, collected rain water, solar power. Other than the city collecting the monthly minimum charge for each utility, what changes here?

Julie2Oregon Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 06:02am Reply Quoting: JDPugh Ok.....I get it, he is breaking the local ordinances by not being "hooked up" to city services and doing so right in the city limits no doubt he is doomed to lose this fight. But let us assume his mobile home is allowed and he is "hooked up" but chooses not to use city services. Instead uses composting toilet, collected rain water, solar power. Other than the city collecting the monthly minimum charge for each utility, what changes here? How can he be "hooked up" but not use city services? In other words, once he washes his bacteria-covered body, where is the nasty water going if it's not going down through the city-provided system to be treated so it's not a health threat to others? Ditto on kitchen waste and the stuff that does down the kitchen drain from cleaning raw meat/poultry? These are health issues that can contaminate land and groundwater. One has two choices -- live in a municipality in which the infrastructure has been provided and the home is connected or live in a more rural setting and do your own. But a city-sized lot typically doesn't have the space required to provide your own, adequate safe septic and water supply.

cabinbiscuits Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 07:02am Reply Wow after reading the comments I figured this guy was living in a pop up trailer on some 50x100 lot in the city somewhere. Then I watched the video and see he appears to be out in the sticks and the story says he has a two acre lot. Not saying he will win, cause I'm sure the codes and zoning nazis will prevail in the end, but as crazy as this world is I can think about a lot more important things to fret about than this guy. 1/4 acre lots can support on site sewage systems in many cases. If you're worried about his bodily waste contributing to pollution, you might want to focus on all the illegals who use the south west US as their toilet and trash can as they pass through. And for those of us who cast stones about his willingness to break the law, you should keep in mind that the average American ( and by this I mean those of us who do not intend to be criminals) unknowingly commits several felonies a day in our overly regulated society. Don't forget, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

JDPugh Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 10:56am - Edited by: JDPugh Reply How can he be "hooked up" but not use city services? In other words, once he washes his bacteria-covered body, where is the nasty water going if it's not going down through the city-provided system to be treated so it's not a health threat to others? Ditto on kitchen waste and the stuff that does down the kitchen drain from cleaning raw meat/poultry? These are health issues that can contaminate land and groundwater. One has two choices -- live in a municipality in which the infrastructure has been provided and the home is connected or live in a more rural setting and do your own. But a city-sized lot typically doesn't have the space required to provide your own, adequate safe septic and water supply. Wow....LOL "bacteria covered body"...."nasty water" I think someone needs to take a breath....geez. I was merely trying to point out that the law does nor preclude this family from washing their "nasty" body in an outdoor shower, from a solar powered pump, using captured rainwater. Nor does it preclude them from rising off their "nasty"cooking utensils from said water in an outdoor sink or bucket and throwing the water on the ground. It just says they must be "hooked up" to city services while they do so. That's pretty much what I was told....you must have a septic system to pass inspection. Nothing says I have to use it I just have to have access to it. Was that not the situation more or less with the lady in Cape Coral Florida ? As recall for $$ reasons, she was not hooked to the electrical grid or city water and sewer. She used candles or lamps, captured rainwater and I think a sawdust toilet. In the end she was required to hook up to the services but not forced to use them just pay the monthly minimum. Yesterday, it was well over 90 degree's and I spent a couple of hours with my neighbor's whose kid's were playing in a child's wading pool and the water sprinkler. Had I realized that this water, which was unfiltered, after it washed over their "nasty" bodies was so offensive I may have needed to call in the health department. Especially when after several hours they dumped that "nasty water"on the ground.....I know I am being a bit of an ass here but..... geez Julie relax a bit. This will all be over as soon as the EPA takes total control over every river, lake, farm pond, drainage ditch, mud puddle and rain barrel I can hardly wait.

bldginsp Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 11:27am Reply When I was in Yucatan I stayed in a palapa on the beach. Every day the landlord came by, turned on the pump from a shallow well in the front yard, and filled a water cistern on the roof. The toilet flushed to a septic system in the sandy soil in the back yard, 30 feet from the shallow well. She told me not to open my mouth when I took a shower. Thank you for that advice, Candelaria, but it didn't save me from Moctezuma's revenge. But if you are a vet, you can do anything you want because you fought for freedom. I think, I hope, what they fought for was to preserve a society where we vote in laws to keep the few from harming the many, as best we can, whether the 'few' are greedy jerks in Wall St. or a low income vet who doesn't get it about basic sanitation. But who gets the 'crap'? The Wall St jerks who screwed the economy so much that we have a lot of un or underemployed vets who, by economic necessity, put themselves in questionable relationship to local law? No, the vet gets the media attention, as though it's his fault or the evil local gov, take your pick. Give honest vets a hand up, and throw Wall St. in the septic system.

rmak Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 12:43pm Reply Vietnam combat infantry veteran here. I dislike and am disturbed when people play the vet card. Particularly when it's used it to advance an agenda, like when news programs highlight it as in this case. What does being a vet and living off-grid have to do with each other? I am touched when there is an honest recognition of my service on occasion, and I say thank you. But to be a good citizen is much more important. Everyone needs to work together. Are we over regulated, under regulated? How can we be free to make choices and respect others? These are issues we should deal with without muddying the waters with trying to emotionally charge them with labels.

Kudzu Member	# Posted: 20 Jun 2015 06:36pm Reply