|
| Author |
Message |
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 10:20am - Edited by: rmak
Reply
I got to take my new woodstove out for a test drive in the recent big snow after a proper seasoning of the cast iron. It took about an hour and a half to get things relatively comfortable. Our cabin is pretty well insulated, but what used to be the front porch is now big windows. I also have a ceiling fan to drop the heat from the small cathedral ceiling area.
I'd really like to have some quicker heat. The cabin is on our property and I'd love to spend a few hours back there enjoying the peaceful scenery after work or on Weekend afternoons. It's hard to steal away from other duties if I have an hour to get comfortable and another hour to make sure the stove fire is low enough to leave it safely.
I was considering a larger sized kerosene stove or propane unit (vented) with a fan. Both have downsides. I don't want smell and the hassle of kerosene or a big propane tank messing up the cabin outside. I'd appreciate any alternatives, or a thumbs up on kerosene or propane from those who use them. Any way to speed up the distribution of woodstove heat?
|
|
FishHog
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 10:32am
Reply
there are really only 4 options. Wood, propane, kero, electric.
If you have already ruled out the first 3, you got electric as your only alternative.
but if your only talking an hour here or there, why do you need a big propane tank. Use small ones and keep them out of the way so they aren't an eye sore.
I use a combination of wood and propane. But unless you leave it on a thermostat to keep a constant heat, your going to have to deal with the time it takes to warm up no matter what you use.
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 11:01am
Reply
Thanks, FishHog. I'm running a small solar setup, so electric is out too. I like the thought about a smaller propane tank. When I considered propane as my primary heat I was looking at a 100 gal tank, large enough to provide, but small enough I could load it in my truck and get it refilled. Since this would be supplemental maybe a tank the size of a grill tank would work. What do you think? I could keep that in an outside corner somewhere.
I realize there's a lot of cubic feet of cold to make warm. I was hoping just to get things moving faster.
Anybody use the heat powered fans on top of the woodstove? I've seen them advertised and was wondering if that would help.
|
|
groingo
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 11:27am - Edited by: groingo
Reply
First of all how many square feet is your cabin, the large front windows, regardless you want to look at them lots of glass means lots of cold regardless unless they are poly carbonate or lexan (which I doubt) which don't transfer heat and cold, otherwise insulated curtains.
You know your heat is going up into the ceiling and the fan will help but if it spins to fast you cool the air while moving it, can you control the speed if so you want it turning very slow, this will move the air and cool it less.
An infrared hand held thermometer makes tracking down drafts and cold spots fun and easy.
As far as an Ecofan goes, it's a tossup, if you do get one you want the three blade not two blade but in the end money could be better spent addressing the real problems.
Propane heat would be good to use in conjunction with the wood stove, one could be used to get things warming till you got the other up to speed so you could keep the propane requirement much lower that way.
All in all, when you first get there everything is going to be cold and will simply take time to get warmed up....till then some heavier clothes may be a winner....just no easy answer with so many variables.
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 11:37am
Reply
Thanks Groingo. The cabin is 12 X 16 or 192 sq. ft. The windows are new, double pane, but nothing real high tech. Insulated curtains are a good idea and may keep away people peeking in that pass by.
I like the idea of infrared gage. Kind of like ghost busting! I did insulate and caulk, but didn't overdo things considering I might want a little draft to provide O2 for a woodstove. Any guidance on that would be appreciated.
I'm pretty insulated myself when I go out. The problem seems to be that I just sit and monitor the stove as it starts. Maybe I will feel more comfortable with the burn characteristics after a while and feel I can move around and do things and keep warmer that way.
|
|
groingo
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 12:08pm
Reply
I live in my monster mansion of 195 square feet so we are very close.
The infrared thermometers can be gotten at most hardware or auto parts stores for $19 to $29...money well spent.
You are spot on not making the place too tight.
I am heating primarily with propane and during the winter months I use ten gallons a month so I just have two five gallon tanks, much easier to handle than one big one plus you always have a backup rather that putting all your eggs in one basket.
One thing I would definitely consider is a drop ceiling, it works wonders and it could be done in fabric, plastic or just add trusses and 10 inch knotty pine boards (which is what I did) and you greatly reduce heating area and with some insulation keep it cooler in summer and warmer faster in winter.
Best of all, don't be afraid to experiment, get the infrared thermometer and you can see the results as they happen!
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 27 Nov 2014 02:34pm - Edited by: rmak
Reply
Quoting: groingo I live in my monster mansion of 195 square feet
Wow! What do you do with all that extra space?
|
|
joedepilot
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Nov 2014 02:14pm
Reply
I have found a small hot fire works better at first to get high quick heat then add bigger wood.
|
|
|
SubArcticGuy
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 12:29am
Reply
Depending on how much solar power you have...what about adapting a small forced air furnace out of an RV? Has anybody adapted these into their cabins?
|
|
groingo
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 12:43am
Reply
I find just twisted newspaper gets the stove warmed quick then you can ad wood if you want.
|
|
ShabinNo5
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 09:17am
Reply
Keeping in mind that many will be concerned with this recommendation, we use a "Hero" bullet heater when we first arrive at our cabin (it wil run for 6-8 hours on its internal battery between charges). This is typically a 5-10 minute burn. We also have a direct vent propane heater and at some point in the furture will also have a wood stove. We have three carbon monoxide alarms for added peace of mind. Beyond that concern the burning propane does introduce moisture.
Currently the walls of our cabin are not insulated. When the outside temps are 20 degrees during the day and 0 at night, the direct vent heater will burn though most of a 30 lb tank from Friday night until Sunday afternoon. I rotate two 30 lb tanks and one 40 lb tank for the direct vent heater and use a 20 lb tank for the bullet heater. The size of our cabin is 16 X 20 on the main floor and 10 X 20 lofted area with standing head room.
|
|
SubArcticGuy
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 03:27pm
Reply
Just found this....could be very interesting for a cabin...
http://www.dieselmisers.com/documents/proheat_broch.pdf
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Nov 2014 06:40pm
Reply
If i needed to knock the edge off the cold in my cabin and didn't warrant starting a fire in the Woodstock. I would set my single burner "Mr Heater" in a milk crate to keep it from falling over (5 gallon propane sets inside milk crate perfectly) and set it on top of my trash burner woodstove. I do have a CO detector and would barely crack a window for fresh air. Well insulated, it gets it warm quickly.
|
|
old243
Member
|
# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 05:04pm
Reply
Our hunt camp takes a while to get warmed up. Get the fire started and rolling good . Then go outside for a while and go for a walk , do some chores , etc , There is nothing pleasant about sitting beside a woodstove , until it gets warmed up. Just takes a while. old243
|
|
ClimberKev
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Dec 2014 04:35pm
Reply
I'm in a similar situation. I often visit our solar powered cabin mid-week in the winter. I've had good results using a 75,000 BTU kerosene/diesel heater until the fire gets going. It doesn't seem to draw the batteries down too much. I've found that diesel #1 actually has less smell to it than kerosene. Important to keep things ventilated during the process and I don't leave it unattended...runs like a jet engine.
|
|
Scott G
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Dec 2014 04:43pm
Reply
My brother in law used a small forced air propane ' construction' heater...the cylindrical ones. 5, 10 minutes to get the room up to temp.
Why kind of ceiling fan do you have? Just curious because you're on solar. I'm trying to find the best option for my place.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Dec 2014 10:18pm - Edited by: MtnDon
Reply
Quoting: Scott Girvan Why kind of ceiling fan do you have? Just curious because you're on solar. I'm trying to find the best option for my place.
The RCH DC fans are superb. We have the Vari-Cyclone model. Its blade design is more efficient than the typical flat paddle blade.
The variable speed control is nice, but pricey. On ebay you can find PWM speed controls from China for under $10. I use one for the RCH fan. Be warned that it two tries to get one that arrived in working condition. The seller was very good about sending a replacement w/o the need to return the first one.
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Dec 2014 10:22pm
Reply
Quoting: MtnDon The RCH DC fans are superb.
Second that. I have the four blade model - moves a lot of air without a lot of power draw (especially with the variable speed as you can run it very slowly).
|
|
slgerber
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Dec 2014 12:45pm
Reply
Since you have a solar electric setup you must have some solar gain. How about using a solar air heating panel to warm the cabin? You could build one yourself without much cost if you can obtain a nice piece of scrap glass. Use tempered sliding glass doors are often available cheap or free. You can read more ideas here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm#Passive
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 1 Jan 2015 10:36am
Reply
Thanks slerber! I don't have any south facing windows or I would do a heat grabber.
I experimented with a 10,000 BTU kerosene heater. It took 6 hours to go from 24 degrees to 60 degrees. That is way too long a time. I am looking around for a 23,000 BTU kerosene heater to try. I know the dangers of kerosene and these are just experiments to see how fast I can heat the cabin up.
I eventually want to go direct vent propane but I would like to get some idea as to how many BTU's I would need. I'm finding out that heating an area is different than raising the temp from freezing to livable.
|
|
slgerber
Member
|
# Posted: 2 Jan 2015 08:49pm
Reply
What's on the south side of your cabin? Does it get sun? You don't actually need any windows at all in order to use a solar air heating panel. You can just cut two holes through the wall so that the cabin air can cycle out through one hole and get warmed by the panel and then back in through the other hole. Perhaps you could also cover the big windows with foam board panels when the cabin is not in use in order to reduce heat loss and make it easier to heat up. You might even decide to leave the foam board over the windows all the time during the coldest months, at least when it's dark out.
- Steve
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 2 Jan 2015 10:25pm
Reply
That's a good idea, slgerber! I guess when I was leafing through your site I just gravitated towards the window heat catcher because I was familiar with it. I'll study it a little closer. I would have to make it removable since I love the look of the south side of the cabin.
I am buying window quilt drapes suggested by MtDon on another thread. That will reduce the heat loss from my big windows.
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jan 2015 03:14pm
Reply
An update. I ordered some roll up quilt curtains yesterday. Can't wait to put those babies up!Today I tried a super hot fire in the woodstove using kindling and sticks. The heat shot up pretty fast, but it set off the smoke detector. After it hit 55 inside the cabin I introduced regular sized wood and it was peasant sailing from there. A comfortable 70 degrees inside with 30 degrees outdoors.
|
|
Truecabin
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jan 2015 03:44pm - Edited by: Truecabin
Reply
i have 180 sf cabin too
i use a mr heater big buddy with 2 burners 18000btu cost about $110
its a catalytic propane heater, it makes water vapor but i never had a problem with condensation - no fog on the windows at all - zero
i run it on a 20 lb propane cylinder it lasts maybe 10-15 days depending on how much it's used and how cold
i use it in the morning if the fire went out and only until the fire gets hot.
big buddy has a fan too it uses 2 D cells to blow more heat around and you can turn it down to low it's really a useful heater
even though its catalytic and has a CO sensor i don't sleep with it on
so when i get to the cabin the first thing is spark up my big buddy then build a hot fire in the woodstove i have a 12v computer fan blowing across the stove it blows a lot more than an ecofan and the watts are very minimal, something like 1 or 2 watts blowing the heat to the other side not just rising up and overheat the loft
i put my big buddy on opposite side of the cabin way far away about 10 feet  It still takes a few hours to warm up but its a lot faster than the woodstove alone and if the woodstove burns low my buddy is still putting out 18000btu.
thats my warmup process
|
|
BaconCreek
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jan 2015 06:58pm
Reply
We use a Big Buddy Propane heater also. We sleep with it on but we have 2 CO2 detectors at each end of the cabin. 2 different brands. We use a grill tank located outside to run the heater. It heats the place up pretty quickly.
|
|
bc thunder
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jan 2015 08:59pm
Reply
Bacon, has your big buddy ever set off the c02 alarm. I would like to get something for cold mornings when the fire has gone out. maybe if I cracked a window open I would feel safer.
|
|
BaconCreek
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Jan 2015 06:43am
Reply
The Buddy hasn't but the 2 detectors have. The gas ran out of the buddy and it got a bit stinky. I am glad to know they work.
|
|
rmak
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Jan 2015 06:49pm
Reply
Just got my window quilts! Thanks for the tip Mt.Don. I'll post a photo when I get 'em up. They will go a long way toward quick heat.
They look super cool. Now we're thinking of putting them up in our house.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Jan 2015 07:30pm
Reply
Quoting: rmak Now we're thinking of putting them up in our house.
|
|
|
