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ClarkMichigan
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2014 12:00am
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Hi there, I have been working at getting my life going off the grid and have been lucky enough to get my hands on 3 trojan t-31 gel batteries, otherwise all i have is there infamous HBF 45w kit... I am trying to build a system around these batteries that will make the most of them and perhaps let me even run a fridge one day, i have all 12v led's in the cabin and will only run a led tv, xbox360, and charge my laptop. right now, after spending an arm and a leg on a to code chimney for the woodstove, I have about 600$ to invest in my system and want to be strategic in what I buy as to be able to keep expanding, as I save money. ...and i know i'll have to ditch the HBF controller... which should i get, i do have a modest generator which Id like to help charge the batteries. Please shed some of your infinite wisdom! Greetings from eastern ontario!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2014 12:53am
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Gel batteries require a charging profile that is different from std flooded lead acid and AGM batteries. Many common cheap, non user programmable chargers will quickly ruin a Gel battery. The charge voltage and charge current is lower than for FLA & AGM batteries. Overcharging is what ruins a GEL battery. That is the down side of a GEL battery. They do have great shelf life, with a low self discharge rate, similar to an AGM battery, though.
So I would first contact Trojan and determine the recommended voltages for charging and their recommended charging amperage rates. If those have been sitting a while there is a recommended "boost charge" procedure for charging before placing them in service. Again, check with Trojan. Gel batteries are the easiest type to ruin when comparing to flooded lead acid (FLA) and AGM.
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ClarkMichigan
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2014 08:11pm
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Thanks for the reply, I'm aware of the nuances of gel batteries, and was hoping for some more specific advice on maximizing my system: charging from the generator and what chargers are good for my purpose, aswell as what recommendations for a charge controller and the size I will need to eventually make the most of these sweet batteries. I'm trying to make strategic purchases, but numbers aren't my forte and I know a lot of you have done this all before, so thanks in advance, anything helps!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2014 09:59pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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I first wanted to be sure you knew about the shortcomings of gel batteries for RE, off grid use. Most knowledgeable RE folks will never recommend a gel battery.
You mentioned wanting to expand as money is available. I'll be direct and blunt. Building an off grid system with the intent to expand over time very often results in an unsatisfactory experience and buying equipment a second time.
How to charge those batteries off a generator? Many chargers are not suitable because of not having a gel setting. The Xantrex Truecharger 2 does and has the desirable three stage charging. It has built in settings but I do not believe it is programmable. Comes in 20 amp and 40 amp and I think 60 amp models . For the three T31's a 30 amp charger would be just about right, so you'd have to go smallish or largish. I'd probably suggest smaller.
For the PV system you need a charge controller that either has Gel settings or is completely user programmable. Four hundred watts of PV panels with a good charge controller like the Midnite Solar Kid should work well. It's MPPT and is very good at squeezing power from the sun and into batteries. That will eat up all of your $600 and then some though.
Some of the best battery chargers are built into inverter / chargers. Those are also the most expensive. Inverter choice is a whole other topic. Modified sine wave vs pure sine wave. The refrigerator you mentioned as a possibility will work better and last longer on pure sine wave. Motors in general do not like mod sine wave; they run hotter and therefore use more power and wear out faster.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2014 01:36am
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I'm clueless on the solar stuff for now, Don is the man here and groingo. But as far as gennies goes, that I have down, the Honda EU2000i is king. 
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2014 01:32pm
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They should pin this question but until here's is what I did.
First invest $29.00 a get a kill a watt power meter to help you determine exactly how much juice your appliances really use.
Now look at the numbers and double them.
When getting panels again double what your numbers say you will need, this will cover you for really crappy low sun days.
Batteries typically you want deep cell golf cart batteries (flooded) but if you already have some you want to try no harm but in the end you will be wanting flooded deep cell, more common and less expensive.
Charge controllers depend on the size of your system, a PWM controller which can be had for about $29.00 is great for 400 watt systems and under where an MPPT controller for larger systems starting at around $300.00 and up.
Gas generator for when solar may need some help again depends on your power requirement but Honda and Yamaha are the two top choices either way due to reliability and fuel efficiency.
Where to get stuff is a crap shoot, just do your homework and check product forums NOT reviews if you have questions and of course here.
Good luck, keep it simple and don't be affraid to ask lots of questions.
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ClarkMichigan
Member
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2014 12:36am
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Thank you for all the help! As you can see I am new to this forum, though I've been lurking through the span of my building planning. Thanks for making me feel so welcome, I hope to be able to contribute some of what i've learned, not just asking questions all the time but I do find myself with more questions the deeper I delve into the off grid world.
Managed to grab a champion 80cc genny for 130 off kijiji practically new, and i've found some "blemished" solar panels in the range of 80c a watt. Seems like a mixed blessing havin the gel batteries but they were a deal. probably put off charging from the genny and go for the Midnite Kid controller, would it be much cheaper to buy it in the states?
I am doing everything from scratch so other than led lights, im only using the tv and laptop, probably end up with a tv that uses around 80w, and i do have a small 175w inverter. Figured i can run the generator for my tv needs if the batteries are getting low; I usually spend about half the week at my cabin, so if i use my batteries up over a few days then let it all charge back up via solar am i still 'microcycling' or compromising my batteries? and for refrigerator a small office fridge would suffice but its not on my radar yet since winter is pretty much here. Thanks again for all the insight!
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coalsparks
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2014 12:07pm
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You might want to try a projector instead of a TV? I'm told they suck less power.
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ClarkMichigan
Member
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 12:18am
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Thanks, projector idea is cool, makes me think of drive ins. Ended up getting a 40" led tv that uses max 65w, how much of a consideration should I make for it? It was cheap. Where am I going to get the best price for a Midnite KID, I'm in Canada and I don't see it around much..
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 07:55am - Edited by: Steve_S
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ClarkMichigan, for Projectors, I've been considering these two for my own use: AAXA P3X Pico Projector and AAXA P2 Jr. Pico Projector
They both have their own batteries, can project up to 80" wide @ 1080p but I "want to see it working" before I buy it and have yet to hit a retailer willing to open it & run it.
Midnite Kid @ DNM Solar Ontario
MIDNITE KID @ Dommelvalley
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creeky
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 09:25am
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You got a deal on panels but you don't say what kind or power.
Remember, the kid is more a small system controller. 300 to 900 watts of solar panels. (price is good tho)
If you're in the 700 to 1500 watt range you should be looking at a 60 amp controller. Particularly as you have a 12v battery pack.
Charger: You might look at the PowerMax Boondocker charger. It's quite well made and has an adjustable "boost" voltage. When you have solar the charger is typically used to bulk charge your batteries occasionally under extended cloudy skies.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 09:48am
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Quoting: Steve_S for Projectors, I've been considering these two for my own use: AAXA P3X Pico Projector and AAXA P2 Jr. Pico Projector They both have their own batteries, can project up to 80" wide @ 1080p but I "want to see it working" before I buy it and have yet to hit a retailer willing to open it & run it.
That first one has a lumen output of 70. You're going to need to be in a blacked out room to see any images it projects, IMO. A 15 watt incandescent light bulb puts out about 100 lumens. So it's not even that bright. No wonder no dealer wants to take one out of the box and demo it.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2014 10:10am
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The P4 puts out 125 Lumens and the P300 gives 300 Lumens on DC (160 lumens on LiIon battery @ $13 extra).
I've seen a couple of videos of people using these and surprisingly they seem to work quite well but obviously not in a bright place. Battery powered or dual powered for me is better.
Considering my Screen uses 90 watts (47" LG LED TV) and these use considerably less, it's something to ponder. Besides, during the day, in normal situations, won't be sitting in front of the "tube" as it were but doing other more interesting things, so for evening / nighttime use when conserving juice...
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