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rmak
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 02:06pm
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I'm ordering my Honda generator today. I'm excited! My plan is to wire in four plugs or so for our immediate use.
The first question is any advice about a good, safe plug that will run from cabin to generator. It will be exposed to the weather year round so I want something that will stay dry and free from harm.
Or is there a better way to connect the generator to plugs?
Second question. The second stage of my power will be installing one or two deep cell batteries in a small loft/shelf area. These will be charged with the generator and eventually with some solar panels.
Do the batteries have to be vented in some way outside? I'm thinking of building a box around them so we don't see batteries. What's the best venting system if we need to have one?
Third question. When I get batteries and inverter, I want to wire to ligh fixtures and a few plugs for use at night when we don't want to run the generator. What gage wire do I want to use for general wiring? I have a roll of white and one black in 12 gage left over from wiring my barn. Is that too heavy or too light? Do I need a ground wire too for a few lights and plugs? I used conduit in the barn so that was the gounding system.
Thanks!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 04:01pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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899.99 EU2000i
Quoting: rmak a good, safe plug that will run from cabin to generator.
You will run a standard type cord from generator to cabin. By std. I mean a male plug on the end that plugs into the generator outlet and a female connector on the end that connects to the cabin. The cabin MUST have a male end in a box on or in an exterior wall. They have been linked to here before; marine supply dealers, RV dealers and even Amazon. They have a Male end instead of a Female end. This avoids the very dangerous home made alternative.
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Quoting: rmak Do the batteries have to be vented in some way outside?
Absolutely YES (...there is something about lead acid batteries being overhead that makes me nervous. I really do not like them inside at all.)
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Quoting: rmak What's the best venting system if we need to have one?
http://www.bdbatteries.com/hydrogenventing.php
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Quoting: rmak When I get batteries and inverter,.....
With the inverter supplying 120 VAC you wire just like a regular grid tied house. 14 ga minimum for 15 amp service and 12 gauge minimum for 230 amp service. Using 12 gauge for 15 amp circuits is fine.
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Quoting: rmak Do I need a ground wire too for a few lights and plugs?
YES. For safety as well as to meet applicable codes.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 04:12pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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Oops- don got there first- sorry if this repeats what he said -
For your cabin circuits its best to take them off of a small sub panel which is powered by the inverter, unless the inverter itself can act as the sub panel (are any made that way?)
# 12 wire should only be used on circuits that will draw less than 20 amps, and should be protected with a circuit breaker no larger than 20 amps. It's all about preventing overloaded wiring.
You should run grounds with every circuit and ground all metal equipment from receptacles to light fixtures and any other metal. If some metal gets electrically charged because of worn insulation on hot wires, the ground makes the breaker trip, removing the danger of electrocution.
Batteries should be vented unless they are the sealed type. Unsealed ones don't make a lot of hydrogen, and its hard to make a situation with an explosive mixture, but its possible. Remember the Hindenberg. Good venting, even if the vents are small, to the outside is a good idea.
To run your extension cord or circuit from the generator to the cabin it's best run it in conduit to protect it. Be sure you run a ground wire to the generator, or else the generator circuit breakers can't trip in the event of ground fault (worn insulation).
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rmak
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 04:23pm
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Thanks, MtDon!
So a specialty item male connector box on the outside of the house. Then I will be able to wire plugs from the inside of the cabin to that box to be used for generator power. Am I correct?
It sounds like I should have a box built outside the cabin for the batteries. Is that what you recommend?
Sounds like romex (sp?) two wire with a ground is what I need for battery/inverter power.
Sorry Don, that leads me with another question. Does the inverter wire go to a circuit breaker and the power comes from there, or do I wire right from the inverter?
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rmak
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 04:37pm
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Sorry for the double post!
Is this what I'm looking for?
http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-200BBIW-RV-White-Straight-Blade/dp/B003VAYK48/ref=pd_si m_sbs_indust_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1X7DXE4AKEPH68TC2B67
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 07:37pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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That's one of a number.... there was/is another link to one on Amazon in my first post. Slightly obscure maybe as it's a single word in ligfht blue.
Amazon
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 07:50pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: rmak Then I will be able to wire plugs from the inside of the cabin to that box to be used for generator power. Am I correct?
I did not include detailed notes like the fact there should be a fuse/breaker in the cabin electrical system. Those would be in a small service panel as bldginsp mentioned. The electrical system in a cabin, however small should mimic that in a house. It's the best way to be safe.
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Quoting: rmak It sounds like I should have a box built outside the cabin for the batteries. Is that what you recommend?
I believe it is safer although there are others with differing opinions. It is true cold weather outside will lower battery apparent capacity. It is a trade off. I trade in the direction of being safer.
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Quoting: rmak Sorry Don, that leads me with another question. Does the inverter wire go to a circuit breaker and the power comes from there, or do I wire right from the inverter?
In a small setup, IF the inverter and generator both have built in breakers or fuses you could skip the breakers or fuses inside the cabin.
***!!! If you have both a generator and an inverter for 120 VAC in the cabin you would also be advised to have a transfer switch in order to assure there is no chance of someone accidentally having the inverter and the generator both actively connected at the same time. That will likely release the magic smoke from one or the other sources. Maybe both. There are automatic and manual versions. Small ones that are reasonably priced are available with a Google search. Also try searching this forum ; they have been mentioned before. IF there is no inspection you could use a RV ATS (automatic transfer switch) as long as the cabin is 120 VAC ONLY. No 240 VAC in the building at all. It will function safely, just will not pass an NEC inspection done right.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 07:57pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: bldginsp generator circuit breakers can't trip in the event of ground fault
A normal circuit breaker has no connection to ground; it is wired solely in the hot wire, senses overcurrent and trips for that.
A GFCI will trip for an electrical fault without the presence of a ground wire. It will not trip for an overcurrent. The GFCI trips when it senses a fault on the neutral (white) wire. The GFCI will test okay with the "Test" button on the GFCI, BUT it will not test with one of the plug in test devices inspectors use as those testers require the presence of a ground wire.
There are labels that either come with or are available for use with GFCI's and any downstream receptacles that state: "GFCI protected / NO Equipment ground" that should be applied to any receptacles wired with only 2 conductors; mainly meant for use in old, old houses that still have only 2 conductor wiring w/o the ground.
I'm not sure about AFCI breakers. I believe they will operate okay without a ground wire as well. Just not certain. ??? They do have a connection to the white neutral in the service panel, but nothing to ground so they should be okay, I think.
BTW, IF there is no ground wire (third wire) the receptacles must be two prong only (they are available for repairs to old buildings) OR can be three prong BUT then MUST be wired through a GFCI AND be labeled with the "no equipment ground" labels.
Lots of NEC rules and the rules are always evolving.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 08:58pm
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Addendum: AFCI's will also work without the third, ground, wire Here's a link to an Eaton document that states so. Top of page 6.
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