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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2014 10:06pm
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with the "polar vortex" wreaking havoc across the nation, I can't stop worrying about the pipes at my cabin. I have a Nest thermostat so I'm constantly monitoring the temp inside my cabin. However, most all the plumbing sits under the cabin in the crawlspace. If the cabin lost power, the heaters obviously wouldn't work and then the pipes would surely freeze.
Any recommendations on remote water cutoff devices? I've been looking at the "FLO-n-STOP" which cuts water when power goes out, and it has a water leak detection unit that cuts water off when it detects water (where you don't want water). http://www.homedepot.com/p/FLO-n-STOP-Total-Household-Automatic-Remote-Controlled-Wir eless-Leak-Detection-and-Water-Shut-OFF-System-with-Alarm-22950/203906501#
I'd also like to be able to shutoff the water via the internet so I can shutoff the water line from home when I see the weather is getting cold at the cabin.
Anyone have recommendations?
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PatrickH
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 07:42am
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The problem is there will still be water in the lines, to prevent pipes from bursting the lines need to be drained. pipes i've seen burst split at the ice formation and dont leak until it thaws. Most people I know bleed their water lines before they leave and have to turn everything back on when they get there it is a process but the only way to be sure pipes wont burst.If you insist on keeping the lines charged maybe wrapping them in heat tape and controling that with a themostatic controller would be a solution but that itself has some dangers that may be worse than a burst pipe.if it where mine I would shut off the water and bleed the lines.
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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 08:36am
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Are there any products that can shut off the water and bleed the line, remotely?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 09:06am
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To bleed the line you need to open the lowest point and open the system somewhere up higher to allow air in as the water leaves. I'd be surprised if there is any kind of a remote system that can do that, but I'm willing to be surprised.
But also, if there are any loops or traps in the the piping system, you may need to blow compressed air through the lines to clear them. A trap would be anywhere where the pipes go up and then down, so the water won't drain by gravity. On demand water heaters are notorious for trapping water, then when they freeze they break. Same with shower mixing valves.
I plan to always do a thorough draining/blowing routine in my cabin before I leave it. The piping system will be set up to make that as easy as possible.
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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 01:47pm
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I guess the main thing I'd want to avoid having to do each time I leave the cabin is to have to crawl under the cabin to "winterize" the pipes. I wonder if it would be sufficient enough to be inside the cabin, turn on the 2 faucets and shower, then use the remote to turn off the main water under the cabin. It may not completely drain the water lines inside the cabin, but at least it would get enough out and reduce the pressure so that if any water did freeze in the pipes, it would have plenty of space to expand without actually bursting the pipe. Does that logic sound reasonable or is that a "pipe" dream?
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PatrickH
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 04:49pm
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usually just gravity bleeding to the lowest point works but this point is usually built into the system I would put a valve in a easy location that is a low point drain the lines and leave a valve open as long as the ice can expand you'll likely be ok I dont know anyone that blows their lines out with air but that would be ideal.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 06:37pm
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We blow out with compressed air in the fall at the cabin. Be careful of any one piece mixer valves, shower, kitchen sink. In winter if we go for more than a couple days we usually use the water system, then blow it out before leaving. Otherwide for a day or two it's jugs and heating water on the wood stove.
We also turn the water main off when we leave home for more than a day. Ditto the cabin, but there it is just turning off a pump.
At home we have a water alert alarm device for the hot water tank (in case of leaking).
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 9 Jan 2014 10:40pm
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Quoting: RedTailHawk It may not completely drain the water lines inside the cabin, but at least it would get enough out and reduce the pressure so that if any water did freeze in the pipes, it would have plenty of space to expand without actually bursting the pipe. Does that logic sound reasonable or is that a "pipe" dream?
Redtail hawk, how about installing an outside faucet at the lowest point and then looking at your plumbing, look for the furthest fixture. Even if you have to add an additional "port" with a ball valve that you can blow the air into. So turn off he water, open outdoor faucet, then open bleed port, blow in compressed air and you are clear. Do you have PEX? I k now its much more flexible and less likely to split if it freezes.
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MontanaJared
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2014 09:24pm
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A stop and waste valve installed in gravel below the frost line is what you are looking for.
You could make this remote controllable with a servo, some limit or force switches and some arduino programming.
J
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2014 10:03pm
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I plumbed in a spigot...at the lowest point...where the water comes into the camp from the well...I drain water heater/ flip up pop off valve...open all faucets...open this spigot...flip the breaker to the well...drains it all..and I drain my pipes at well and pressure tank with one turn of a cut off valve to OPEN!!! leave a 60 watt bulb burning in well house all winter...cheap insurance ,,,in case any water left in pump etc...
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Just
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2014 09:14am
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I AM WITH TURK!! but your cabin has to be plumed that way so every thing will drain to one spot . Plus you must drain all the traps and toilets in the whole place. If your place is built with this in mind it only takes 5 minints when leaving the cabin.
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tverga
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2014 01:13pm
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I keep the heat on all winter but set it to 50 degrees so it keeps the pluming from freezing. Even with the heat I close the hydrant on the well and drain the lines every time. I do have a outside spigot that is the lowest point of the system so it takes all of about 2 minutes to flush. I do not blow the lines as 90% of the water drains from the pipes. We are only at the cabin 2-3 times a month so even in the summer I close the hydrant just in case. I sleep better knowing that I won't be walking into a leaking pipe that has been running for two weeks.
We drove to the cabin this Sunday and guess what, the heat was not coming on. Inside the cabin temp was 23 degrees. The only loss was 6 sodas and a bottle of dish washing soap. I was very happy that I drain the pipes every time I leave the cabin.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2014 04:16pm
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My water tank is now a 4x4x4 giant ice cube.I'll find out in the spring if my tank split out somewhere.For now I'm using 5 gallon jugs for my water supply.This weekend I plan on rigging up a 55gallon barrel under the counter for water supply for the rest of the winter.And it's cooooooold here in WNY.
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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2014 02:38pm
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It appears my temperature issues and freezing pipes stem from my crawlspace. It is a dirt floor, with cinder block walls and has small vents on 2 opposite ends of the cabin (to help dissipate humidity in the summer months).
I just read about sealing up the crawlspace to reduce the humidity issue, so therefore I can seal up the open vents that are letting the temperatures get so cold under the cabin, which apparently froze the water line that comes in from the well, and is probably the reason my Nest controlled baseboard heaters on the main floor of the cabin can't get the temperature above 60 degrees when the temp dips so low outside (and under the cabin). Here's the write up that is inspiring me to "seal" up my crawlspace? http://www.waterproofmag.com/back_issues/201204/Sealed_Crawlspaces.php
Anyone recommend against this?
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creeky
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2014 04:25pm
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rayyy. sorry to hear about your water tank. i copied your idea, but brought mine into the cabin this fall. whew. but didn't you get through last year with no problems? must be this c-c-c-c-old winter.
RedTailHawk. You ain't gonna like this.
You can use a Vera ... but just the water control is (currently on sale)
FortrezZ Automatic Water Shut-Off Valve
Our Price: $399.95
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MJW
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2014 07:32pm
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After a couple of issues during our "-13 for 2 days in a row" ordeal earlier in the month, I bought a Mr Heater Buddy portable propane heater and a 12 ft extension hose.
This Sunday when the cold front came in and over the last 3 days with highs in the teens and lows at 5 or so with a 30 mph wind, the 8 x 12 pumphouse stayed so warm that the heat lamp I have plugged into the thermo cube never even came on.
That $120 bucks was money well spent.
I like getting water when I turn on the faucet. 
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