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groingo
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2013 11:13am - Edited by: groingo
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While looking into potential Carbon Monoxide from my home built unvented propane heater I have found Carbon Monoxide detectors from Kidde and First Alert to be questionable at best while the Pulse Oximeter that you simply place on your finger tells you your blood oxygen levels (Sp02) and heart rate in real time very accurately.
With this information you can adjust home venting in case you encounter Sp02 (Carbon Monoxide) in your living area and it's actually fun and painless to do, it truly is amazing how a window cracked just 1/4 to 1/2 inch can make a big difference in air quality and actually help circulate heated air.
I've had blood tests done to verify accuracy and the ChoiceMMed Oximeter that can be had for $34.00 at Walmart is dead balls on.
With this I can test as often as I want and see the results of changes in minutes while the detector may or may not go off (out of three tested none of the detectors even went off) and that is just not acceptable when it is your life you are entrusting to it.
Best advice, test your Carbon Monoxide detector or better yet read the instructions and see all the Disclaimers for when it doesn't work and why and its lack of accuracy.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2013 11:42am
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You're using a pulse oximeter as a CO detector!? Intriguing...
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MJW
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2013 11:52am
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How does this help you when you are sleeping?
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groingo
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2013 12:14pm
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Quoting: MJW How does this help you when you are sleeping?
I never have a wood or propane heater on when I sleep, that's where flannel sheets come in!
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SubArcticGuy
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2013 01:33pm
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Last week there were just two people found dead in a cabin a few hundred kms from me. No official word yet but everything is pointing to carbon monoxide. It is getting cold...check your detectors or better yet be like Groingo and just bundle up to sleep. I will run a wood stove at night but I don't trust propane enough.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2013 05:58pm
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Whats the best way to actually test your detector?
Also, what are good brands?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 09:03am
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I have had one in my cabin (also a smoke detector) and I just installed a CO detector in my house. Apparently they want me to replace it every 10 yrs, as soon as I power it up (one in my house), the thing starts its self destruct mode and commits suicide at the 10 yr mark and lets out a chirp every 30 seconds and no longer works for CO detection.
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groingo
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 11:34am - Edited by: groingo
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Quoting: Rossman Whats the best way to actually test your detector? Also, what are good brands?
Best I have found was to place it near a running law mower or generator (exhaust side) for around ten minutes the worse condition engine the better and if it is going to go off it should, none of mine ever did but to be clear why they don't go off up simply read the included instructions and you will see a plethora of exceptions as to why it doesn't work, from altitude to allowing 5 to 60 margin of error.
I'd never trust my life to any of these detectors.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 05:47pm
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You can also bugger up a perfectly good detector by doing that. Many folks get it too close and too hot is one reason. The only test method I have had recommended is with cigarette smoke or an incense stick and no closer than 1 foot. At least that is what the manual that came with our last one stated. Also many test buttons simply verify the battery is good, not the sensor. I have also verified one a few years ago when my neighbor had a charcoal grill going in his garage to heat iron he was bending. I told him of the danger, got the CO detector off the wall at home and within 5 - 10 minutes it went off in his garage.
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ErinsMom
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 07:54pm
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Please don't depend on a pulse oximeter. You have to be conscious and oriented to use. Most of the ones purchased on line or at drug stores do not have an alarm. In the hospital, we do have a table model that will alarm, but again: you must be conscious.
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groingo
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 09:36pm
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Quoting: ErinsMom Please don't depend on a pulse oximeter. You have to be conscious and oriented to use. Most of the ones purchased on line or at drug stores do not have an alarm. In the hospital, we do have a table model that will alarm, but again: you must be conscious.
That is very true and yes there are a ton of them around, this one has been checked for accuracy both by blood test performed several times now by my doctor and against a Hospital grade meter all of which readings agreed.
And as explained above, it is suggested not to have a wood stove or propane heater going when sleeping.
Wrist alarm units can be purchased online but should always be checked for accuracy, personally I just prefer to sleep with all heat shut off, something on my wrist and finger would drive me nuts.
A properly calibrated Oximeter is a tool and nothing more.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 10:44pm
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Quoting: groingo it is suggested not to have a wood stove or propane heater going when sleeping.
Explain what makes a properly designed, built from quality materials and properly installed and well maintained wood burning stove or direct vent propane heater any more dangerous than a well maintained natural gas or oil fired home furnace as is used by hundreds of thousands of residences and businesses across the country/world?
The biggest hazard posed by a wood burner stove with regards to CO is that in some situations the chimney draft of the wood burner can cause a backdraft or downdraft from an appliance like a gas fired water heater. That can draw the exhaust from the water heater into the cabin/home. But that is a part of proper installation of both the water heater and the wood stove.
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groingo
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2013 11:29pm
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Quoting: MtnDon Explain what makes a properly designed, built from quality materials and properly installed and well maintained wood burning stove or direct vent propane heater any more dangerous than a well maintained natural gas or oil fired home furnace as is used by hundreds of thousands of residences and businesses across the country/world?
That's easy, it's like the car in that it is only as safe as the nut behind the wheel, in this case, safe heating is only as safe as the user.
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brokeneck
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 04:17am
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Since co binds to your blood cells -- how exactly would you use an spo2 sensor as a co detector?
My qustionis why would you even use a home built unvented propane heater with or without flannel sheets ?
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groingo
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 12:38pm - Edited by: groingo
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Quoting: brokeneck Since co binds to your blood cells -- how exactly would you use an spo2 sensor as a co detector?
If you are exposed to SpO2 the detector detects oxygen attached to your hemoglobin which is the iron-containing oxygen-transport metalloprotein in the red blood cell which makes it possible to see in real time how you are being effected and then you can take appropriate measures typically by improved ventilating or air exchange.
Bottom line is Propane is a very clean fuel and when used with refined burner design and a baffled system (which reburn's gases just like in a modern wood stove) you reduce what little is left which can then be managed by a simple air exchange.
Like any other combustion heater (vented or not) I never use when sleeping and never leave un-attended and most importantly always monitored, there is no such thing as a completely safe product, anything in the wrong hands can be dangerous, you just weigh the risk and keep eyes open.
Why use it?
It's what I do, I make things.
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Truecabin
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 01:22pm - Edited by: Truecabin
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Quoting: groingo you just weigh the risk and keep eyes open Why use it? It's what I do, I make things.
you are an addict my friend- i understand about making things
your right keep your eyes open dont test co while your sleeping in it
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2013 02:33pm
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Quoting: groingo Quoting: brokeneck Since co binds to your blood cells -- how exactly would you use an spo2 sensor as a co detector? If you are exposed to SpO2 the detector detects oxygen attached to your hemoglobin which is the iron-containing oxygen-transport metalloprotein in the red blood cell which makes it possible to see in real time how you are being effected and then you can take appropriate measures typically by improved ventilating or air exchange.
Reading that it seems there is some confusion or maybe just some mis-speak. Nobody is exposed to SpO2; there is no gas, liquid or solid that is known as SpO2.
When arterial oxyhemoglobin saturation is measured non-invasively by pulse oximetry, the process is called SpO2. When arterial oxyhemoglobin saturation is measured by an arterial blood gas it is called SaO2. Both are expressed as a percentage. Healthy people should have 90 to 100%.
The theory here would be that if exposed to CO, the SpO2 reading will fall to dangerous levels as the CO displaces O2. Not a direct method of reading CO. I suppose that should work as long as one is able to function and remember to take a reading with the pulse oximeter. You can also get low readings by holding your breath.
Maybe that sounds like nitpicking but the term SpO2 was used incorrectly which can and does lead to confusion and/or incorrect beliefs. SpO2 was incorrectly used in the OP but I was going to let it go. The second round made me want to clear the air, so to speak.
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