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justincasei812
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2013 12:25pm
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I was wondering if anyone here has considered or switched over from one to another form of heat as described above. Right now I have a propane stove (looks like a wood burner or pellet stove and no electricity needed) that is vented to the outside. The cabin is approx. 950 sq. ft. and it takes about 3-4 hours to get the cabin livable in the dead of winter in northern Michigan and approx. 24 hrs. to get rid of all the cold out of the cabin. I was thinking of switching over to a corn/ pellet stove rated for a 1500 sq. ft. living space. My big concern is that I do not have electric other than a generator and a battery with an inverter. So the stove would need to work with the battery at night. It is an older model and a few less bells and whistles which works out better. So anyway my question is has anyone done this and how has it worked out. Has the corn/ pellet type stove worked out better or worse and why?
I think the cost of corn maybe a little more expensive than propane depending on the year but I can buy a conversion kit to switch to pellet. Propane is more convenient since I just have to light the stove and be done with it but there is no blower and it takes a long time to heat the cabin, then again I am not sure the burner will do a better job and needs electricity to work. We only go to the cabin about 8-10 times during the winter and a week for deer season but it is cold when we go up. I spent about $500-$600 in propane in the past year for heat, cooking, fridge on long weekends and a few gas lights that are on at night when the generator isn't on. The propane and corn stove would be an even trade.
Thanks for the input in advance.
Kevin
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groingo
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2013 01:20pm - Edited by: groingo
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Personally I have found propane to be much less hassle, storage and keeping fuel dry is not an issue, cost is stable (at least where I am),
No heavy lifting, no ash, no soot, no power needed (depending on heater), no tracking dirt into cabin (refill hopper), propane, light a match sit back and enjoy.
As far as circulating the air, if your propane stove has a flat hot surface the Ecofan does really work well, I just bumped mine up from 2 blades to three or you could use multiple Ecofan's if you have enough surface area.
http://www.caframo.com/hearth/hearth_products_gasstove.php
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2013 01:28pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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I like propane as well. I don't know anything about pellet stoves. Since you don't have a blower might you try this first? The fan runs from the heat on top of your stove. I saw a demonstration of one at at a store and it really works!
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creeky
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2013 06:49pm - Edited by: creeky
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i used pellets for many years. great heat. the blower on the pellet stove will definitely heat your place up quicker. plus most of them are 40k btu and up. but can you put a blower on your propane heater?
can the pellet stove blower run direct from 12v? Most can. that would save a lot of power.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2013 08:17am
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I have seen the ecofan in action and they are pretty nice, kind of expensive but nice. I am sure that is a one time investment as well.
Groingo & Creeky- That is my biggest pros and cons about the switch over, do I go with something that is easy but colder or do I go with something that I need to do a little work and have some mess with but warmer.
I guess it is somewhat of a personal choice but didn't really know how much work the corn stove was and how well they would work off grid or at least on battery power when the generator was not on. That would be my big concern that the battery would die and the burner would go out.
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groingo
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2013 10:35am
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There are a lot of other variables as well like is the cabin well insulated, does it have low or vaulted ceilings, open design or hallways, separate rooms, windows, doors etc.
No matter the heat source, the better insulated and designed the cabin the lower the requirement for the heater regardless of what you choose.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2013 12:06pm - Edited by: bobrok
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I use propane and although I would love to heat by other means my biggest fear is leaving a heater unattended while away for hours at a time. Propane is not only instant on but also instant off. If anyone has experience or a workaround for this problem please tell.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2013 08:48am
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Fire is fire no matter what the source. I think propane heaters have a lot of safety features that are great. My propane heater looks and acts a lot like a pellet stove and puts out around 30,000 btu's ( a little small for the cabin). I would think the only way it would shut off if it lost the oxygen source or if the thermal couple went bad.. The heater is sealed and the only way a fire would start is if something fell on top of the heater its self. We normally start the propane heater and then head out for dinner to allow it to heat the cabin some while we are away especially when it is below freezing. I like the propane heater just not that it takes what seems a long time to heat the cabin and that is why I was interested in the corn/ pellet stove with a blower. It seems like it would distribute the heat better. In the winter we run the generator more often since it is dark outside earlier and the generator is hooked up to run the entire cabin. We have ceiling fans and box fans to move the air if needed but the box fan can be loud/ drowns out sound/ etc. At night the generator is off and the heat does not get distributed off of the heater.
Kevin
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groingo
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2013 10:16am
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Does the stove top generate over 150 to 225 degrees even at low heat?
If so an EcoFan will do the job, got a picture of your propane stove or a place where one like it could be seen?
Also sounds like you have vaulted ceilings if you have room for fans, if so that will be where your heat is most likely going, drop ceilings are more efficient.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2013 01:11pm
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Griongo,
I am not sure I would have to place a grill top thermometer on the top to see @ 30,000 BTU's I am sure it does. The eco fan's work well and I have seen them in action on wood stoves. You can kind of see the stove on the right in the first pic, that is if it uploaded right. Yes I have vaulted ceilings, it would be hard to put in drop ceiling in just because it wouldn't look right.
Cabin kitchen area
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living area
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outside
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groingo
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2013 03:01pm
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With a large open area and vaulted ceilings you are right, pellet or propane would be a tossup.
Running the blowers overnight efficiently and quietly could be as simple as using a smaller generator overnight and the bigger during the non sleeping hours or a large generator with ECO mode or throttling capabilities for lower power loads.
Or: Bundle up good at night or next spring install a drop ceiling.
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creeky
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2013 06:21pm
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i would check the pellet stove user manual and look at the energy draw. those dc fans are pretty frugal. add enough battery power to run it for the night and you'll have battery power to run led lights.
in line with groingo. you've got a lot of lovely windows. not so great in the cold of winter. so have you tried insulated window curtains?
30k btus on the propane stove seems pretty reasonable. whatever stove you have there's a lot of mass there to heat up.
you know. short of tossing in a cocktail, Molotov style.
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Snuffy
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2013 09:16am
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My brother-in-law had a pellet stove and got rid of it. I'm not sure what type it was but he said it was very noisy. Something to do with the electric hopper dumping the pellets in the middle of the night, I think.
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groingo
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2013 09:55am - Edited by: groingo
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OK, my final word on (Corn) Pellet versus Propane.
First you will need a place to store a ton or so of pellets to keep them dry and to keep the little critters from eating the stuff, then there is storing a supply inside for re-filling the hopper, smoke soot, tracking pellets and general mess and of course hauling the bags around and moving the stuff....hows your back?
Then there is Propane...Rent the tank, have it refilled when needed, install heaters, turn on sit back and enjoy the peace and quiet and warmth remembering there is no lifting, no mess, no storage, no refilling any hoppers (especially in the middle of the night because you forgot to) and your back will say thanks in so many good ways.
I have personally moved to Propane for all of the reasons above and many more I could make up after heating with wood forever.
P.S. I'd also do like Creeky suggested, look at a set of insulated curtains to help hold heat in at night.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2013 12:33pm
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Thanks everyone. The girlfriend is in your boat on all of this. She doesn't want the mess or the work that goes along with the pellet/ corn stove. I was truly doing it more for her since she doesn't like to be cold. I have a 500 lb propane tank on the property that supplies us very well. I normally have it filled before winter since it's a mile long drive way and after the snow starts falling the truck may not be able to get back to us. I will keep the propane stove and just use the box fan and possibly a ecofan for the cold nights. After the cabin is warmed through (a day or two) it stays about 72 F within the cabin. I will be putting plastic over the windows this winter. I forgot until it was really cold last year and the year before. As you can see we have a full bar there so if anythign else we have a little sense of false warmth from that.
As far as the back well.... I am two back surgeries and two hip (L&R) replacements in at the ripe old age of 42. I can still do things but I know the wear and tear of lifting heavy things will come to an end sooner than later.
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groingo
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2013 12:50pm
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Full bar, nothing like some Jack to keep the cold out!
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2013 10:33am
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I was really interested in these corn stoves when they first came out.A local farmer was trying to find enough customers to warrant him switching from dairy over to all corn crop.It all had real potential but then an ethonal plant opened up near by and the price of corn doubled overnight,thuss wipeing out the whole idea of cheap corn for heating.It's to bad.I thought it had great potential.
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creeky
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# Posted: 24 Sep 2013 09:59am
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ya. some of the local farmers here grow their own corn for their stoves. they're pretty happy with 'em.
one guy bought a corn hopper for storage. he wheels it out to the field. fills it up. wheels it over to his outbuilding where his corn furnace is and then plugs it in.
what a statement. 
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groingo
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# Posted: 24 Sep 2013 11:38am
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A couple years ago I was going to try corn cobs for fuel, I knew they burned hot as coal and you needed heavier insulators to keep from burning through your stove but the real shock came when I tried to find the cobs to dry and burn, turned out the farmers on the West coast and most everywhere else use the cobs for cattle feed or just till them into the ground as a soil amendment, none to be found for heat.
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 24 Sep 2013 12:22pm
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I also have a cabin in Michigan, we have a pellet stove in the living area and a ventless propane in the kitchen area. When we get there on a Friday night in the winter we turn on the pellet stove and the propane heater. The pellet stove takes a long time to get to temperature we only run the propane heater for 3 - 4 hours or until we go to bed. It takes a good 24 - 36 hours to warm the place but it also sits on a cement slab. Slippers are required
I would agree stay with the propane, if you decide to change I would go with a wood pellet stove only the dual fuel stoves act up more? If I were to do it again I would look at a wood burning stove there would be more mess and a bit more work but much more heat for the $$.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2013 12:34pm
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Thanks for the thought jjlrrw. I think the key is that I would be heating up the cabin from the ambient air temp. This does take a lot longer to heat than if you had a furnace running all the time let's say @ 45-50 degrees. Cement slabs are nice especially in the summer. Winter time they take a long time to heat up. I have family that have a cabin near Alpena with a cement slab but theirs is insulated (foam under the slab) which helps out a lot in the winter. I would think of wood as a source if I was not in the middle of pine forest. Have a good friend in Montana that heats with a pellet stove and he said he would not trade it in for anything but the house is always warm and not heating from the cold state either. I was looking for time to be on my side as I heated the place up on a Friday evening when we arrived.
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redbaron
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2013 01:16pm
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Has anyone considered or tried a gravity fed pellet stove like this?
http://www.wisewaypelletstove.com/home.html
No electricity needed, but you can attach a fan for better heating. You can even heat water with it. That looks interesting to me, but I wonder how well they actually work.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2013 02:06pm
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@redbaron: I have wondered if such a thing existed as a non motorized pellet stove. Never was able to find one. Thanks for the post!
Bob
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creeky
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2013 03:07pm
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that wiseway is nice. but $2000. 
you can get a pellet holder for a wood stove. google "pellet grate wood stove" for under a 100 bucks.
i think my veggie grill for the bbq looks very similar to the grates. hmmm. i'll buy a bag of pellets and report back.
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redbaron
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2013 04:39pm
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@creeky cool, didn't know anyone had made a good option for wood stoves and pellets. I really like the look of this one:
http://www.bradleyburner.com/howitworks.php
Apparently its made from stainless steel angle iron. Now I need to find someone with a TIG welder...
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2013 12:14pm
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I have heard of the gravity feed pellet stoves before but they are hard to find and you're right $2k is a bit much but very little to go wrong with them I guess. No computers boards to fail.
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creeky
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2013 08:19am
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just wanted to report back on using pellets in a regular wood stove.
it was 0 (32F) last night and so this a.m. i fired up the wood stove.
i used pellets only as part of the wood i put in the stove. basically i piled them up inside a stainless bbq veggie grill. the kind with sides and lots of little holes. the pellets seemed to stick inside okay.
works great. about as hard to start as regular wood. maybe a bit easier. and once they get going they burn hot.
watching the pellets burn, a lovely gently flame.
now it's not very cold out. or in here. it was 20C (68F) when I went to bed last night and only dropped to 14 or so.
still. nice to know I can keep a bag of pellets handy for small fires during this transition time at the camp.
and dang it. recuring my dutch oven with bacon grease and now I'm all hungry.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2013 11:41am
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That is good to know that during those not so cold times and wanting to take the chill out that would do the trick!!
Thanks for the report.
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