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groingo
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 10:48am - Edited by: groingo
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Since we all use portable generators in one form or another I thought it may be a good idea to pass on the latest scam I uncovered involving Westinghouse Portable Generators to those new to Small Cabin living that demonstrate "if it looks to good to be true it usually is".
Here are the facts on this latest scam using an old US company name to sell cheap Chinese products of which I am 100% confident after in depth research and speaking to Westinghouse and their Support Supplier (Billious) that the reviews are definitely being "Stacked".
I called Westinghouse Corporate and yes this is a legit sub division of Westinghouse Electric Company, now sit down and get ready, I called 10 of their Dealer Support numbers (From their own site) for my area and beyond (that Westinghouse shows are their authorized service centers) and 100% said they either never heard of them or or NOT providing factory support for Westinghouse products, this is a typical Chinese (Dumping Ploy), like All Power, Powerhouse, ETC and on, they just grab numbers from a phone book and post them as their support centers and it gets even better.....replacement parts are either non existent or you have to be a service dealer to get them from Billious....see where this is going...it's called a brick wall and what happens when people buy PRICE and not Product!
Billiou's is the service and support supplier unfortunately they ONLY sell to Support Dealers and if you are not a registered Support Dealer and you need a part you are S.O.L. to make matters worse, they are having a hard time even getting parts period.
Best advice.....AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE, this is NOT the same Westinghouse company we grew up with., think Maytag, Whirlpool, Speedqueen, Lakewood, Pelonis and the list is endless of former US companies now in Chinese hands but still using their recognized names.
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hattie
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 11:09am
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Wow, I had never heard of this kind of scam. Thanks for letting us know groingo. It pays to do your homework!!
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groingo
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 12:29pm - Edited by: groingo
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The key to this kind of scam success is two things, people buy price and the fact the odds are heavily in the manufacturers favor the generator will hardly get used and by the time something breaks it will be out of warranty and they will be long gone.
Also, "Stacking" goes on a lot, where a new product line suddenly comes out and you will see an unusually high positive review score, that is the first sign the site has been invaded by "Stackers" who are paid to provide positive reviews on a product, this is allowed to go on because the sites like Amazon, Walmart, Wayfair, Ebay etc., like it because heck, positive reviews sell more product so you have the classic Conflict of Interest.
The key to good information used to make sound buying decisions is sites just like this one and Forums as well and if a Stacker tries any funny businesness on those sites they are mobbed and banned!
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Truecabin
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 01:00pm
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good info thx
irwin tools is another old usa name that was quality but is now the worst junk
investors buy a usa name then gut the company until it pays back there purchase price and more
internet stacking is get more gravy for the investors this is the world we live in now
costco is selling a westinghouse generator for 699 if you want it get the costco warranty
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groingo
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 02:27pm
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That's the generator that started this whole investigation, my neighbor and friend was interested and so was I until the puzzle began unraveling.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 07:38pm
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Quoting: groingo this is allowed to go on because the sites like Amazon, Walmart, Wayfair, Ebay etc., like it because heck, positive reviews sell more product so you have the classic Conflict of Interest.
This isn't true, selling people garbage isn't a good business tactic and amazon does try and weed out the paid reviewers, but its really hard to do when people are being paid to game the system.
Ebay takes a diff approach where people have to moderate themselves but probably this system is being gamed as well.
Anyway I don't think it's in the retailers interest because it's bad press for them, and they don't want to have to deal with returns/etc.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 09:35pm
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With any chinese product, parts after the 2 yrs mark at all but done. And from the new to that point, nearly impossible or slower than molasses in winter.
Instead of the 699 one from Costco, then buying an extended service contract, get a Honda from the get go, pay 899 and get a good warranty with big backing, lots of real service centers and parts way beyond its useful life.
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groingo
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2013 10:43pm - Edited by: groingo
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This isn't true, selling people garbage isn't a good business tactic and amazon does try and weed out the paid reviewers, but its really hard to do when people are being paid to game the system.
Ebay takes a diff approach where people have to moderate themselves but probably this system is being gamed as well.
Anyway I don't think it's in the retailers interest because it's bad press for them, and they don't want to have to deal with returns/etc.
IF the retailers were truly interested in keeping things honest and above board and they are as we all know well aware of the review stacking they should dump the reviews and do like other retailers do and go to the Forum Format, that way, like here, Stacker's wouldn't last five minutes and you would have a much more realistic and credible view of the product from REAL users and not some paid blogger but you're right, it IS in the retailers best interest to at least try to look like they care....but they don't because many of the manufacturers don't want the returned goods back and just apply a credit to returned goods toward future purchases.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 11 Sep 2013 05:49pm
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Well I bought a Generac 1600 watt inverter generator.Generac has always been known to be a good brand name but this one clearly is a "made in china",throw away when used up.Don't get me wrong it does work but it is hard to start,run's rough once you get it started and is quite a bit louder than a Honda.There is a little primer bulb you have to mess with too.The Honda eu2000i,you flip the choke,flip the on switch,a half pull,unchoke and she is up and purring like a kitten with half the noise of the generac.Clearly a much better generator.I sold the old one for $300. bucks on craigslist.I am sold on Honda even for the $899. price tag!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 11 Sep 2013 09:31pm
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Quoting: rayyy I am sold on Honda even for the $899. price tag!
rayyy, quality comes at a price. But man, is it worth it. I have to be Honda Power Equipments biggest fan and non paid advertiser. I love my EU2000i and my larger EU6500is (and my Honda self propelled walk behind mower too  )
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Rossman
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# Posted: 11 Sep 2013 10:26pm
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Quoting: groingo IF the retailers were truly interested in keeping things honest and above board and they are as we all know well aware of the review stacking they should dump the reviews and do like other retailers do and go to the Forum Format, that way, like here, Stacker's wouldn't last five minutes and you would have a much more realistic and credible view of the product from REAL users and not some paid blogger but you're right, it IS in the retailers best interest to at least try to look like they care....but they don't because many of the manufacturers don't want the returned goods back and just apply a credit to returned goods toward future purchases.
I don't believe a forum style format wouldn't help anything, people can game those just as well, and it's arguable that they would provide a better system for rating individual items in the same easy to use way that existing reviews are implemented.
Once companies stopped using automated scripts and started just paying people to stack the reviews and game the system, policing just becomes almost impossible no matter what system you use.
Also Amazon gives you your real money back if you return something, so they definitely feel a real economic impact here. Furthermore their returns system is completely automated and really easy to use, so it's not as though they make it difficult in the hopes that ppl won't return something.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2013 10:23am
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I think Costco cares about their customers and the products they sell. Have you made them aware of the issues you have found regarding the generator?
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2013 10:27am
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I forgot to add that Whirlpool does make some of their appliances in the USA. I have picked up and delivered loads for them in Ohio.
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groingo
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# Posted: 12 Sep 2013 10:49am - Edited by: groingo
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Whirlpool is like Speed Queen, they get the kit (all components from overseas) and assemble them in the US, that's what "Made in the USA means now", virtually nothing is made in country anymore, it's just not cost effective...US just assembles stuff.
Regarding Costco, they thanked me and are looking into it as is Wayfair, Walmart and Amazon, where they go from here is up to them and the buying public, best weapon is better educated buyers, we all have the tools now all we need to do is use them.
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Joncat84
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 11:35am
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This thread has me a little concerned because I am sitting in my living room waiting on my westinghouse generator delivery lol. I guess the reviews were too good to be true. I read literally like 100 reviews. I just went onto their website for service centers and called 3 for area code 10992 in ny. Two of the three said they service and sell, one said they don't. I think I'm going to keep it and fight with Costco if I have an issue. If anyone else gets any more info please post.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2014 01:44pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: WPSM This guy clearly has no proven or founded facts. who knows maybe he works for Generac?
Hey, if its not a Honda or a Yamaha 1000, its JUNK IMHO. 
WPSM. how about some pics of your cabin, where is it located. How many acres, you build it yourself or sub it out? 
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2014 09:44pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech WPSM or "Westinghouse Power Stacker Man"
Well played lol
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2014 10:14am - Edited by: groingo
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To have searched out that specific year old post it boggles the mind the thinking behind it.
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beachman
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2014 05:45pm
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That is what is good about this forum. We learn from each other and from each other's experiences. I have a Champion 6250 and aside from one small repair, it has worked great for three years so far. I do hear from many folks that Honda is very good, quiet and reliable. This comes with a cost but for $450, I am quite pleased with the Champion.
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2014 05:50pm
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beachman, not surprised you are pleased with your Champion. I know many people who feel the same. A nice alternative if you don't have the budget for Honda or Yamaha.
I am eyeing a couple of their inverter models which also get great reviews.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2014 10:23pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech WPSM or "Westinghouse Power Stacker Man"
Inspired. 
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2014 11:15pm
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There is actually companies and people who are hired to actually do damage control and try to clean up any bad publicity on the internet about companies. Granted, there is loads of slander out there and plenty that isn't deserved. But also plenty that is deserved and what makes the internet a great resource to investigate before making a purchase. I do this all the time anymore. I love high quality tools etc and will that is my top priority vs price. And I expect to pay more for higher quality.
I can tell you the chinese made stuff IS in fact, hard to obtain parts for and after a few years, are unobtainable all together (referring to groingos post) usually because "that model is no longer in production" while large mfg such as Honda/Yamaha etc have a huge parts network and makes parts available for many years after production.
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WPSM
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2014 04:17pm
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I have a small place up in three lakes Wisconsin and we have a Westinghouse WH7500E electric start unit. We absolutely love this unit. I have compared it to my old Generac model and it is so awesome in comparison. When I have needed any parts, I simply called the number in there manual and I am routed directly to a live body to get my order. With this type of service support I then in return purchased the Westinghouse WH2000iXLT unit as well now for my very sensitive items. This unit started on the first pull out of the box, where my older Honda took at least 17 and cost twice the price. For the value and the price point, I think its tough to best a Westinghouse. I did see some of the frustrations up above from others, however it seems to me to be the complete opposite of my personal experience by calling the number in the manual, but with my older Generac I couldn't even get a call back or my local service dealer really didn't want to work on them anymore as he stated that Generac doesn't pay them in full for their warranties. I am not defending anything, however I do not have much respect for someone or a group of people who sit around a bash or trash anything without doing the right thing from the beginning themselves. I have reached out to several of the people who posted reviews online and they are more than happy to share information as well as calling the service support number. I am a very happy camper with both my Westinghouse products.
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RiverCabin
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2014 12:51pm
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Quoting: WPSM When I have needed any parts, I simply called the number in there manual
Quoting: WPSM where my older Honda took at least 17 and cost twice the price
What a load of hogwash.
I've owned my Honda EU2000i since 2006 and it has NEVER needed a single part. In that time it has run my cabin, including a small AC unit for seven seasons, has been loaned out to friends for projects at least six times, and has gotten me through power outages lasting up to a week several times. To this day with nothing other than routine maintenance it starts on the first pull.
I've shown my cabin on here now lets see yours. Lets see you convince us you are not a shill.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2014 03:06pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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If any small engine needs 17 pulls to start there is usually something amiss. That can happen to the best engines. The only times my Honda, my Yamaha even the old Briggs & Stratton needed more than one pull was if it had been sitting unused for a period of time, or if it was particularly cold, or if I forgot to turn the run switch to On.
The point RiverCabin was trying to make about showing us your cabin because he showed his, was that when someone comes along and out of the blue, in a first post they condemn something and/or give absolute faith in something being the best thing since sliced bread, they often, but not always, have an ulterior motive. Dang, my English teacher would have called that an example of a run on sentence. Me bad. Folks who have criticisms do have better reception at times when they are known and contributing members to a forum.
That W2000 may prove to be a good unit in the long haul. Right now we don't know. There are a tremendous number of companies trying to get on the Honda/Yamaha inverter generator bandwagon right now. Competition is good. Not all those brand names actually have the manufacturer standing behind the product. Most are re-badged Chinese something or another. Even though Westinghouse is a big, well known American name, we have no guarantees that Westinghouse will be there with parts in 6 years, 10 years from now. Westinghouse may decide in a few years that the market is too small to continue selling the units. It is a total unknown right now.
I don't fault folks who look at the array of different offerings with a skeptical eye. We all can be fairly certain that Honda and Yamaha will be there to back up their products for many years to come. Yes, they cost more. At times when I have succumbed to the allure of the low price tag I have ended up getting exactly what I paid for. Sometimes less. A lot of the other current brand offerings will go the way of the Lada or the Yugo, and deservedly so. Time will tell who the winners and losers are.
WPSM could = Westinghouse Products Service Manager
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premiertrailer
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2015 08:37am
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The facts are that all the popular generators are made oversees, even those originating from US brands. Westinghouse is designed and engineered in the US, quality controlled by the corporate office team, and distributed out of Wisconsin where a team dedicated to the Westinghouse generators reside. The warranty is handled thru American Warranty Services. AWS is really easy to reach and their warranty contact number is located on the website as well as in the warranty and user manual included in the machines. They have contracted thousands of locations all thru North America that work on Westinghouse generators as well as many other products that contract them to handle warranty. Westinghouse has done this to make servicing and warranty accessible and easy. These Westinghouse generators are continually ranked at the top of their game, and I can tell you from personal experience are one of the best value in that level of the market.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2015 09:44am
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Uh...that was an opinion piece. And it would be libel,not slander.
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creeky
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2015 01:56pm
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more one posters ...
wpsm. Works in Public relationS to Make a living.
i cannot find any rating that puts "wst..." gennies at the top of any listing?
thx to groingo for sending out a heads up ... and sort of shows how long this stuff hangs around.
I thought amazon is doing a pretty good job of cleaning their reviews. but you can still see the WPSM additions. 45 4 and 5 star reviews. followed immediately by ... oh terrible. you know a PR dept was involved. and probably on both ends.
btw. i'm happy to test any equipment and review (accredited, honest, unbiased) if anyone has free samples.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2015 05:57pm
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Quoting: MtnDon WPSM could = Westinghouse Products Service Manager
WPSM
Westinghouse's Pushy Sales Man.
I remember this thread.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2015 06:05pm
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Lol,if this person works in the PR dept than I think this was all handled in the wrong way. It's obivious there is a consumer that is unhappy. Instead of resolving the issue all I've read is a bunch of finger pointing and name calling from the so called PR department.
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