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rootwad
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2013 07:41pm
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Is anybody off-grid in the old-time way? By that I mean no solar panels, no propane, no electricity, no batteries, etc. If so, I'd love to hear about any techniques you've developed for living in that environment....cooking, food storage, dealing with excessive heat and cold, washing clothes, and the list goes on and on. There are already some good threads on a few of these issues, but it would be nice to get them all in one spot. My grandma told me that on hot summer days in her childhood, they would wet down a towel and attach it to an open window and when the breeze blew through it, it would cool them down. I think it's sad that so many simple little tips like that are virtually unknown to those of us from a younger generation, simply because we are so used to our conveniences that it never even occurs to us to ask those "in the know" how they did things before all these conveniences took over our lives. So if you are one of those who are "in the know".....mind bringing a few more of us into the mix?
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larry
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2013 08:44pm
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i find it funny that my wife and I were talking about how much will be lost, in terms of "how to" when the generation born prior to 1945 passes away. the conversation was regarding how much the younger generation relies on technoligy.
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hattie
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2013 11:32pm
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Most homes had root cellars or cold cellars. Pretty much all homes had outdoor clothes lines and many had indoor ones as well if the weather was bad. Some homes had clothes lines under covered porches to keep the laundry dry during rain storms. Everyone used oil lamps and it was a chore to keep the wicks trimmed and the glass chimney's clean. Carpets where either swept with brooms or taken outside and beaten with brooms to clean them (no vacuum cleaners).
In the winter, ice was chopped from the lake in big blocks and hauled to an ice house where it was stored under straw to be used in the summer months. When you needed some ice for your ice box, you went to the ice house and chopped off a piece.
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rootwad
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2013 12:13am
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hattie, I have a neighbor who lives in one of those ice houses like you mentioned. It's been converted into an apartment at street level but it still has the cavernous basement where ice blocks from the river used to be stored. Definitely a neat bit of history.
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2013 12:04pm
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rootwad,i thought we were off the grid till u stated this post.hee hee.
i do say we have a propane heater and led lites.i thought since we werent relying on the power company we were off the grid.well learn something new everyday.
we are getting a wood stove installed after we build another building.
i do want to cook and bake on it and get warm by that.
we do put jugs of water out in the sunshine and bath with the hot water from that.when we get hot at the cabin-gar has made these wonderful screens.they keep our place cool.u know when we get too hot-we dip a wash cloth in cool water and put this on our necks,bodies and head and face.this cools us down.
i have oil lamps.i do plan to use all the outside as my fridge in winter for keeping food cold.
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2013 12:05pm
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so does this mean no going to the store for t.p.?
or foods from the store.total self reliance??
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rebeccap
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2013 03:14pm - Edited by: rebeccap
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We are completely off grid. Well, couple of exceptions - I use a 12V battery for my fence charger (I have sheep) and I keep a battery charged at my office. Also a couple of battery powered lanterns that I charge in the car.
I use a solar oven (see sunoven.com) for cooking when the weather's nice. Totally, totally love it - would rather use it than conventional oven anyday except too small for some things. Food tastes great. Never burns anything, food doesn't dry out, basically you can't overcook things so I just put food in, point it at the sun and go off to work on a project rather than having to babysit the oven. My sister got it for me last year when we first moved onto our property. OK so she bought it in October and I didn't get to use it till March lol. That's the Pac NW.
I've been alternating between laundromat and washing clothes myself. I lived in Greece in my teens/twenties, had no money back then and was used to washing everything by hand, no big deal.
We're living in a tiny temporary place till we build our 'real' place (all 320 sf of it including the loft) starting next Saturday so thinking a lot about how we will handle various things. Appreciated seeing your post because I find it funny that as soon as you say "off grid" everyone assumes you're either going solar or wind or whatever. For me, it's just been kind of a conscious choice to go down to nothing electricity wise and then add things back in thoughtfully/deliberately if I decide I really want to. I really treasure the QUIET of no electricity.
We don't watch TV, don't need hairdryers etc and I don't like kitchen gadgets so there's very few things we could need power for. Lights are the biggie, not sure yet what we're doing about that. My sister's place which is off grid is piped for propane so they use that for lamps. I have to say one of the things I've appreciated in our short-term place is, not having lights on much after dark. Noticing the difference between day and night. Something healthy about that.
The only really sore spot for me is refrigeration. Coolers really stink unless you like everything swimming in melted ice. I bought an old fashioned ice box (Coolerator) at a thrift store and it really worked quite well. Got rid of it because (a) it was really ugly, needed some work and I didn't have and got tired of looking at it (b) leaked and I didn't have time to mess with it. But I'm planning to get another eventually. I was surprised at how much ice it went through though.
I agree with you about the knowledge loss we're headed for. It's funny though whenever anyone over 50 visits my place, I see happy nostalgic looks on their face when they see my homemade composting toilet or clothes line or we talk about hand dug wells.
Cool storage for food is something I have not yet tackled. We are way, way too wet to dig a root cellar. Will eventually look for alternatives.
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groingo
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2013 06:05pm
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For the past year I have been cooling food using creek water, change it when it gets over 42 degrees, but it hasn't been without challenges as it was easy to keep food cool October thru March but then the fish hatched out in the stream and the water smells of fish but so long as the food was well sealed it made no matter.
I use a simple Igloo cooler outside the front door out of the sun and change the water depending on temp and of course there is no frozen food and meat must be kept a max of 2 days and well cooked before eating, otherwise all food is canned or freeze dried or off the vine.
Light just got simpler with the advent of the solar powered LED yard lights which are very cheap now and can provide ample light all night long, put them out during the day and bring them in at night!
This is a good thread because there is nothing better for the mind than having to figure things out and making mistakes but in the end finding a workable solution you can use, it is a very rewarding way of life I would'nt trade for anything.
If I ever do get blocked for a solution I get out some of my old books from the late 1800's and see how they did it.
For example, making things yourself or inventing stuff like my combo propane heater cooker that does both while using a fraction of the propane of any manufactured heater or stove, with that, wood heat now will be used as a reserve or backup heat only and if it works as well as I hope, next season the wood stove will come out!
Cooking with stainless steel pans has been another discovery, super quick heating and yet very controllable, so much so I do all of the former oven baking on the stainless steel pan on my new cooker heater, no more need for an oven.
Living small and minimally but without hardship keeps the mind and body sharp, it's good medicine.
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tnky03
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2013 06:31pm
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Quoting: cabingal3 so does this mean no going to the store for t.p.?
LOL, TP while I am totally for living a simple, back to the basics life I must say I draw the line there. I remember hearing my grandparents speak of times when catalog pages and even corn cobs (ouch!) were used. For me, as long as I am able to purchase it tp will be stocked here. I have been making my own laundry detergent for over a year and just love it. I was told by an Amish fellow that 12 volt wringer washers are available and would love to have one. Unfortunately most 12 volt appliances are so very expensive.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2013 08:29pm
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I've spent almost every summer for the last 30 years without refrigeration at our camp. Next summer I am finally getting a propane refrigerator. If I added up the cost for ice and fuel to get the ice all those years I could have purchased a few refrigerators. It is going to be amazing to finally be able to have ice cream at camp!
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ICC
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2013 11:52pm - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: rootwad wet down a towel and attach it to an open window and when the breeze blew through it, it would cool them down.
I do like learning about how people lived before electricity gave them lights and other conveniences. However, I do not want to give up my electric Steca freezers. Most of us can not harvest natural winter ice and store it in ice houses for use in warm weather. Buying ice is expensive. Ditto liking my electric lights; oil laps give off heat, not needed most of the year, not to mention products of combustion I prefer to not add to the indoor air. I have some but mostly because they look cool and could possibly be used in an emergency. That hasn't happened in years. My off grid is simply the absence of the power company, the absence of the water utility; I am my own power company, my own water company. I try to minimize propane use and like to heat mostly with my own renewable wood.
However, if doing without electricity from any source is what turns your crank, that is fine.
I have old, maybe antique items like the old clothes iron pioneer grandma used. Old lamps, rug beaters, an hand cranked milk separator, etc. Mostly for curiosity and historical significance. But I do not want to have to try and preserve the elk I hope to get this fall or the meat from the free range steer that will be harvested in fall, without refrigeration. The butcher flash freezes it. That meat goes in one of the Steca's and is as good as fresh when eaten months later. I could butcher it myself, I know how, but flash freezing gives a superior product. We also have some veggies and fruits we freeze and enjoy over winter instead of buying from the market and some root vegetables we keep in a cold cellar. So I guess I do use some old ways.
Old relatives and other old folks I have talked with in years past have all been thankful for the conveniences electricity brought. True, there is a plethora of electrical devices paraded before us in the hopes of getting us to spend our money. However it is up to us as individuals to make the wise decisions and only buy what we need with a smattering of things we want. No need to cave into the adman.
How does one resolve the use of a computer and the internet if one does not want other modern conveniences such as refrigerators, freezers, heat pumps for efficient space cooling and heating, electric pumps instead of manual pumps and so on?
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2013 02:39am
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Quoting: tnky03 LOL, TP while I am totally for living a simple, back to the basics life I must say I draw the line there.
 
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2013 03:43pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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A few things my DH (he is 74) told me about life in Northern Ontario Canada before electricity and indoor plumbing.
For light they used a Coleman lantern,one for the entire house. They heated the house and cooked on a wood burning stove. When the fire went out at night no wood was added. They had homemade down comforters to keep warm. In the morning the water in the wash basin had ice on the top. The chamber pot needed emptying and all the kids took turns taking it to the outhouse. They lived across the road from the one room school house,one teacher teaching 12 grades. Moms job was to go across to the school and start a fire in the wood burning stove so it would be warm for the teacher arriving on horseback in good weather horse drawn sleigh in winter.
The log cabin we built is only 5 miles from this childhood home.
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2013 07:40pm
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the old way can include any time in history prior to when? I have spent time living in an all natural shelter, doing everything with stone tools, wood, bone, etc. i have lived under a wide range of conditions, but the old way can mean a lot of things.
an old time tip i know of is to hang laundry near the wood stove in winter, it dries quick and puts humidity in the air.
i reccomend foxfire books if your interested in the old way
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beachman
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2013 07:38am
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I agree with ICC. There was a reason people invented new things - and conveniences. I too want to be my own power boss but do not want to spend endless hours trying to survivie in the wild. It is true that some of these old ways should be presrved - but not necessarily lived. In building a cabin, how many chopped down trees, hand split logs for flooring and siding, and hand split shakes for roofing and used wooden pegs to put the whole thing together. Not many. I don't know what I would do without propane.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2013 09:09am
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One of the greatest inventions that changed the world was refrigeration. Expecting to live long term using ice or a creek to cool meat is a dangerous way to live. Imagine a bout of food poisioning at your camp and for some of us how far away the hospital is.
So I'm going to use propane appliances and lights along with some solar and a generator. I will spend about $100.00 a month for all my utilities in Canada in the summer from May-Sept. When I'm not there $0.
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hattie
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2013 01:53pm - Edited by: hattie
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Quoting: silverwaterlady One of the greatest inventions that changed the world was refrigeration. Expecting to live long term using ice or a creek to cool meat is a dangerous way to live. Imagine a bout of food poisioning at your camp and for some of us how far away the hospital is.
I agree with you on that one for sure!!! I think sometimes we romanticize the old ways but have no clue how hard life really was. I'll take the modern conveniences any day, but I do still hang my laundry on the line. I also do a lot of canning, but again, with modern science, I follow the new rules on how long to process things, etc. We have oil lamps and emergency heaters in case the power ever goes out, but those are only for short term use. I like a/c in the summer to stay cool and need the internet to order many items we just can't get here. Yup, there was a reason people invented things - they needed them and we still do.
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groingo
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2013 01:58pm
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Quoting: silverwaterlady One of the greatest inventions that changed the world was refrigeration. Expecting to live long term using ice or a creek to cool meat is a dangerous way to live. Imagine a bout of food poisioning at your camp and for some of us how far away the hospital is.
Couldn't agree more, that's why all saved meat is pre cooked but typically for me I eat very little meat but the best words ever to live by "If in doubt, throw it out"!
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ShabinNo5
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2013 05:06pm
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I have to admit to chuckling when a thread begins to stray from the original focus (or at least the original title). I agree with the direction of the recent responses ["Old-Time" solutions have been surpassed by better and often safer options today]. However that does not mean that past approaches to problems should be forgotten or tossed aside. Recall that "rootwad" qualified this thread with "what was used before the conveniences of solar power, propane, electricity, batteries etc.". As much as these things improve our qualify of life, if the propane tank is empty or a component of the solar system fails, having an alternative at hand, even one considered "Old-Time" can turn a bad situation into a positive experience.
Growing up it seemed that there would be a black out every other month. Of course the batteries in the flashlights would often be dead (likely my fault  ). So out would come the candles. They provided enough light to eat dinner and play games.
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Redneck7
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2013 05:46pm
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the only little trick i know of from back then is this old farmer told our family when we put in our wood stove is about ounce a month in the winter when your burning every day. save your potato peels and throw a brown bag of them in the fire place. i guess this cleans out your entire chimney and you dont have to clean it out ever again. the more you burn the more times you do it but eh it works.
Kyle.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2013 09:03pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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If you forget it you're going to have to live without it....
So.....I don't have to worry about running out of anything or forgetting anything. I keep extensive lists as anyone that lives far away from stores does. The propane is going to be in a rented tank with a scheduled time for refills. As it is I have lived without a 100 gallon propane tank and have portable appliances that can be utilized if need be.
The biggest problem I see on this site are the people that use old time methods or methods of their own invention that are so dangerous that they will possibly get themselves or their loved ones sick,injured or killed. My friends DH (injured)and friend(died) in a cabin fire due to a creosote fire. No working smoke detectors to warn them. People I know got food poisioning due to unsafe food storage. I could go on and on.....
I do not think I am off topic. This is all about off grid living.And doing it safely. I've been doing it for 30 years at camp AND every day because I live in a semi truck for 3 weeks at a time relying on battries and a inverter, showering at truck stops.
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cottonpicker
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 10:46am
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AHHH!! the (GOOD OLD DAYS) of off grid living!
I was born in 1936 on a cotton farm in the flat Delta lands of Southern Mississippi.
We had no running water. (Unless you RAN back to the house with a bucket of water from the outside pump which we drove into the ground ourselves)
We had no electricity.
After dark we illuminated (or tried to) the house with a couple of kerosene (Coal oil) lamps. It was definitely less than adequate. Just try reading from the light of a kerosene light!
Our food was cooked and our house was "HEATED"? with wood we cut on our farm.
We dug a pit and built our "OUTHOUSE" over it. No TP! We saved our corn cobs in 2 boxes, white corncobs in one box & brown corncobs in the other box. You wiped first with a brown corn cob then wiped with a white corn cob to check the "PROGRESS" (A little country humor folks!)
We had a decent sized River in front of our house and used it extensively for MUCH fishing, boating, swimming and bathing.
We had 3 cows for milk and butter. We had a lot of hogs which we processed into sausage, bacon etc. each fall. We had access to thousands of acres of adjacent woods which we used to hunt rabbit, squirrel and deer. As a very young teenager I was allowed to hunt in the woods for hours by myself.
We always knew the location of several bee trees to rob and we kept several hives of "TAME" bees for plenty of natural sweetner (honey). WE used the beeswax to water proof our leather work shoes and boots
We had a very large vegatable garden for immediate consumption and to use for canning veggies for the winter.
We had almost an acre of Elberta peach trees. (AHH those fresh peach pies!) We also canned a lot of peaches for the winter.
We picked many gallons of wild blackberries. Some we ate immediately, some we canned.
In our fields we grew potatoes, corn and peanuts.
One room was devoted to the shelves of goods we canned (in glass jars) for the winter. We always had several hundred quart jars of canned food to last us through the Winter.
We were not COMPLETELY self sufficient but we produced or hunted for about 85-90% of the food we consumed.
This was my life style until I graduated from HIGH SCHOOL, turned 18, and joined the Military for a 20 year hitch.
I think that type of life style better prepares a person to be more self sufficient and to be better able to cope with life's ever changing challenges. I know it had that effect on me. But, those days are generally gone forever, never to be repeated unless you deliberately move OFF GRID!
I never thought I would look back with fondness on those days! But I do.
Thanks for listening folks.
COTTON PICKER
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 11:28am
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cottonpicker -I love reading of your childhood .so wonderful to read.
there is some funny things of which I am proud to share with my grandkids.
our microwave recently broke.gosh! it seems they are making them to last about a year anymore.
well-I am done with them.back to remembering how to not nuke our foods.
so jesse my grandson yesterday wanted another hamburger well after we were done with dinner and he asked if there was anymore.i said there is.he got one and said how do I heat it up?he had no clue.hee hee.he is use to zapping everything.
once we all were watching tv and there was a manual rotary dialing phone that u stick your finger In to dial numbers.he was so puzzled as to how these worked.
I tell him about the old party lines we use to have.he is just amazed.
its fun to share some of this with younger ones.
I love taking them to the woods and seeing them flounder first cause they have had their heads stuck in the video games for days and weeks on end.once there-they get into all the fun of the woods and the cabin.
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tnky03
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 01:10pm
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Oh Cottonpicker, I so enjoyed reading your post. That sounds so much like my childhood growing up on my grandparents farm. They also grew most of what we ate, even took loads of corn to the "rolling mill" and had cornmeal ground from it. We peach trees, cherry trees, apple trees, and pear trees. Grandma canned hundreds of quarts of food for the winter. She also canned home made grape juice, so very good. We had a field of potatoes which were dug and stored in the dirt basement of the house, along with shelves and shelves of canned goods. We had walnut and hickory nut trees and cracked out lots of nuts for baking and eating. They butchered hogs and calves each fall and rendered out lard for cooking. Grandpa kept bees, too and used cane to make molasses (so good with butter on hot biscuits). We had three stocked ponds and had fresh fish, which I was allowed even at 9 or 10 yrs. to go alone to catch.
I remember well when a big bathtub was delivered and a closet was converted to a bathroom. It was so exciting to be able to take a bath in it rather than to old galvanized tub. I told my grandkids about bathing outside in the big tub in "solar" heated water. They begged to try it and last summer I filled a round galvanized tub and let each have a turn, with their bathing suits on. They loved it.
There are so many wonderful memories of the "good old days". It is sad so many don't have these simple memories. I try to expose my grands to all I can.
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cottonpicker
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2013 02:35pm
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Cabingal,
Thanks.
When my kids were teenagers I thought I should tell them of the circumstances of my life as a child to adullthood.
Big mistake on my part! As their eyes started to ROLL! I realized they were unwilling & perhaps incapable of understanding what I was trying to impart to them.
So I ceased to try to make them understand.
Instead I would threaten to PUNISH" them by talking of the "GOOD OLD DAYS" LOL
As a last resort I circumvented their unwillingness to listen by committing my life to paper, properly interspersed with appropiate photos, including photos of them.
I gave printed copies and CDs of this information to our 3 children, 2 Grandkids & Great Grandchild.
Between the 6 of them one copy is bound to survive for when they reach maturity & realize that life consists of more than just the present.
It sometimes saddens me to see the trend of interest that modern kids have but maybe our ancestors thought the same thing about us?????
Oh well, this blue orb will continue to spin regardless!!
COTTON PICKER
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2013 10:53am
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Quoting: tnky03 There are so many wonderful memories of the "good old days". It is sad so many don't have these simple memories. I try to expose my grands to all I can.
so very true.my older grandson will not use our outhouse or the woods. he can only last so many days out there and he has to go home.ha ha ha.the last time he never took a sun shower.when he got home the bath tub here was so appalling .ha ha ha.so funny but I know they had the greatest time.
u know speaking of homemade canned foods.as a kid I did not like canned peaches or grape juice.then I married into my hubby s family.and they are all canner.i tasted their home canned peaches.the best in the world and the grape juice was so wonderful.i love home canned things.so better than the store.
what fun memories kids had then.what will their memories be now??computerized nothing.
we are surrounded in town by woods everywhere.if I was a kid...I would be running in them and knowing every single wooded nook and cranny.if my grandsons did run in them...they would probably get in trouble from the powers that be.sure sad.i agree Debbie.
and Debbie.i love your printed copies and cd;s of your childhood to your children.makes me cry its so wonderful.my granny was Swedish.she came over on a boat with her sister and mom and dad from Sweden and her mom died on the boat of tb.when they got to America.her father did not speak English,had no job and no money.he put both girls in an orphanage and never went back to see them.well the sister died in the orphanage.so I have this on a cd of her talking of all her history.its a treasure.i know your children will so enjoy it one day.hugs cabi.
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