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crkcrkhollow
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 10:06am - Edited by: crkcrkhollow
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I am building a 24X32 pole barn this summer that I am going to split in half for half cabin/have garage. The closest power lines are around 500 feet from the barn. Rough estimates are over $1000 to get power to the barn. I am a little more than intrigued to go off grid with solar. This will be used as hunting cabin and occasional summer getaway. From what I have read here and other places I think I can meet my minimal power reqs for the same $1000 and avoid the $35 a month minimum power company fee.
Appliances powered -
minimal LED lighting
29" flat screen tv
DVD player
1.2 cu.ft. refrigerator
700W microwave
radio
water pump
A/C
garage door opener
A/C, microwave, fridge are all optional things I would throw in if I had power, but could easily live without. Considering a generator with transfer switch setup.
So my question is if you could go power or off-grid for the same price, would you still go off-grid. I have no experience even seeing an off-grid setup in place and I guess I am just looking for confirmation that people are truly happy with their setup and not just settling or it was truly the only option based on no access to power.
Thanks
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Kudzu
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 10:24am
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Sure is nice to walk in and flip a switch and not worry if you are going to have power or not.
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MJW
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 11:15am
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I worry less about not having power with my current off the grid set up.
Everytime there is a big storm here I hear about "thousands without power." Not us...not once.
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 11:30am
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I have grouped your loads:
[works easily from solar/battery/small inverter]
minimal LED lighting
29" flat screen tv
DVD player
radio
[requires generator]
A/C
water pump
garage door opener
[best run from generator, but could run from big inverter]
1.2 cu.ft. refrigerator
700W microwave
Ideas:
+ switch water pump to something that will run on 12V
+ lose the garage door opener
+ replace the 1.2 ft3 fridge with a sundanzer off-grid fridge which will consume 9 AH/day
+ run the microwave from the generator
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Ozarker
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 05:03pm
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Good posts! I'm interested in getting off line as well. It's hard to justify financially, my basic elect bill is about 18 bucks, when I live there full time my monthly bill in the spring, fall and winter is no more than 75 bucks usually a little less, but comes summer and I crank the A/C on, I'm at 125-150/170 in hot months. 696 sq ft heated/cooled, use fans in another 216 ft area sunroom. Guessing the total annual bill living there full time is about $100 monthly or $1200. I use a microwave to cook, watch TV, laptop, use only 3 lights and turn things off when not needed, the fridge is an old one but not opened very much and usually full of something to take up space. The well pump is the killer but it rarely runs for long. Outside a lot too.
But I'm sure we all know rates will go up, so some day, that break even should come around and hopefully the solar stuff will keep going down in price.
I like the idea of a battery bank. I read the thread here about running 12V and 110V and that makes cents and sense.
Can't really run a genny full time with fuel costs and the hassle of humping it in either. Propane maybe but the cost is much higher. So solar really pays in this respect.
I'll be learning here, subscribed. 
But I just like the idea of not owing the company too!
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 05:46pm
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Monthly bills kills the fun in life.
Story; At home here in Duluth one spring we went a couple days without power. Not knowing when we were going to get it back on, we went to the country. Where my mom lived and a few miles from our cabin. She was also out of power, but she had an electric range. We took her to our cabin for dinner and a fine evening off grid. If I lived there I wouldn't even know all the troubles in life.
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groingo
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 09:26pm - Edited by: groingo
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Bring in the power as a backup and use or not use once in place, a thousand dollars is a very cheap power backup when you think about it.
Once in, to use or not is up to you plus it will definitely improve resale value.
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ICC
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 11:16pm
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If I could have had power to the property line or whatever for $1K there is no question I would have been hooked to the grid. But then I wanted, needed more power than a few batteries were going to be able to supply. In my case even at $30K the solar would have been cheaper than grid power. So it depends on your estimated use, both the amount of power in kWh per day and the frequency of use. Remeber that abused batteries will be replaced every couple of years and most PV systems fail because of having too few batteries and or too few PV panels. Or in other words suing more power than the system can handle.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2013 11:25pm
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Quoting: Kudzu Sure is nice to walk in and flip a switch and not worry if you are going to have power or not.
very true statement....
my Northwoods camp....it was built with generator...I bought it last fall. Cut my power line in in Jan ( snow everywhere)...got power hooked up....went back in May...flipped switched after driving my 24 hours...PRICELESS!!! my min is $6.57 per month...I sent them $300 and told to let me know when I owe them more money!!!
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 07:14am
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It is cheaper and easier to be on the grid if your power lines are near. You could have a gene for power outages. Solar power to run a entire camp is expensive and is not maintaince free. Most people off grid use propane appliances and they are expensive.
Also think about how long you will want to be able to enjoy your cabin. As we age it gets harder to do certain things. Being older and off grid is going to be difficult.
If we could be on the grid we would. It would cost us about 100k to run power lines to our camp. Being as remote as we are and in Canada it is going to cost about 8-10k to get my appliances a few propane lights and a propane tank.
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ackray
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 12:05pm
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Price wise, off grid is way more expensive. After a couple years of tweaking I think I'm down to around four bucks a Kw. Also just dropped about 2K on some new batteries.
I would highly recommend getting the power in. Then if you want to have some fun look into the tax credits and rebates for wind and sun. it should come close to paying for a basic setup.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 12:07pm
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also check to see if that power company offers a program where they buy your surplus power. Can hekp offset expenses. But don't expect to get rich of any net metering deal
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 12:23pm
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i like the idea of being off the grid.
we have a generator.i have used the vacuum to clean the carpets at the cabin.
we have l.e.d. lite bulbs up and l.e.d. lanters and oil lamps.
we dont seem to have any problems.its just alternatives.
we use propane to heat but will get a wood stove.
and we use propane to cook.and sometimes we cook outside.
once we live there full time we will over come other situations i dont call problems.just different is all.i love being off the grid.
i hope we will stay this way.
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hattie
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 07:16pm
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Solar panels cost lots of money and need batteries to store the power. They don't last forever and will need replacing, plus solar is unreliable. Wind power costs lots too for the turbine, etc. and again, unreliable.
IMO if you can get hooked to the grid for $1,000 it will be much cheaper than going solar and wind. The only time off grid makes sense is if it would cost you in the tens of thousands to hook to the grid. Then, it might be worth investigating getting a really good off grid system set up.
Generators (while off grid) still need juice to work and that costs money plus they are very loud. I think the cheapest route is to hook up to the grid. You will never need to worry about how much power you have stored in the batteries. You can always have a generator for back-up emergency power if the lights go out. We have that as well as oil lamps, etc.
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Grandma Off Grid
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 07:39pm
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Some ideas to share that my off grid nieghbors do:
Hand well pump in kitchen sink.
Same outside.
Also one well powered by honda motor. just ran long enough to water livestock.
I have hand pump on one hydrant.
Think about what you can live without or do different.
I read a story once about a man who put fridge against dominate windside of house. cut hole in it
and used cold winter air for fridge.
To get by off grid without ac requires location in usa and using shade trees if able.
Having cool basement is good. but you said you wont be there full time.
Can you pull garage door up with pulley?
Can you do without the microwave?
One smallish solar panel will charge one battery and give about 3 hours on small tv with vcr and one lightbulb.
You said 35$ for light bill even if no use of it.
If you can afford it great. if not..well not so go
od.
Small woodstove in winter but also consider propane wall heater
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Grandma Off Grid
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2013 07:43pm
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It is possible to power tiny ac with solar. but wont give much and almost needs its own system. generator might handle this somewhat but you would have to store gas anf keep it fresh and rotate it.
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2013 10:35am
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how we keep cool in the hot summer days is-open up the house or cabin in the early morning hours before the sun comes up.
keep open till before things get warm.
we use the pool here at the house and can at the woods too.we also use window fans in town...there is solar paneled window fans too.
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groingo
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2013 11:01am - Edited by: groingo
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Keeping cool is a biggey:
Living in a 195 square foot cabin when I know it is going to get hot I get the place a cool as possible till mid morning then close everything up to keep the cool in, then I have white retractable window shades on the outside of the house to reflect heat from the building to reduce exterior warming, this works typically until 4:00 then the heat wins and I either turn on the AC or go down to the creek and kick back till it starts to cool off then go back to the cabin and open it up and let it cool for the evening.
Bottom line, AC can be a wonderful thing but it requires a lot of power and if you can pay a measly thousand bucks to improve quality of life...DO IT, it will always be there if you really need it.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2013 11:10am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Our cabin is a perfect summer camp with the most wonderful soft breezes. It is located in one of the most famous sailing waters in the World. It is only really warm a few days. We just go out on the boat or spend the day in the lake. It always cools down at night,perfect sleeping weather.
Sadly some of the members on here are off grid in hot locations and can't stay at their cabins in the summer for lack of ac. I'll bet if they could get power they would.
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Grandma Off Grid
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2013 06:54pm - Edited by: Grandma Off Grid
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Dupe
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Grandma Off Grid
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2013 06:55pm
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Wanted to and real quick.. if you use white or light-colored siding that will help. also vent fans in roof. I believe there are some that are solar powered.
If you were okay with paying a small bill just to be sure you have electricity it really might be worth your while to do. to have a see if you were in a very hot climate would be heavenly especially if you've been out in the Sun all day. and if there are any friends are family with you with health conditions. that kind of he would not be good for them. let us know what you decide.
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MI drew
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# Posted: 15 Jul 2013 11:11pm
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Well after a few days at our off grid cabin in this 90+ heat we will be getting electric run asap. I stopped counting how much we've spent on ice for the food and drinks and gas for the generator to run a few things most importantly some fans. It will run us about a $1000 as well and will have a smile on my face when I pay that bill.
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Brknarow
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2013 07:42am
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Something to add to your considerations; with our wonderful new government regulations, you may want to check if your area electricity is being supplied by a coal plant. I've been reading where coal plants are being replaced with oil burning plants (makes sense?) with an estimated 20% increase to the residential monthly utility bill. This is early in the transition and this may all be panic talk, but it's still something to consider.
I've stated here before that my reason for going off the grid will be out of spite. Where I live the utilities charge around $20/month just to be hooked up. Electric, water, gas alone is $60/month just to sit at home and be connected. I don't like being charged for the privilege of paying them money.
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crkcrkhollow
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2013 09:02am
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Thanks for all the great comments.
To your point, Brknarow, I have to pay $35 a month just to be hooked up with no usage, since this is as non-residential service. That's annoying but I sort of get it that they have costs to cover.
Based on a lot of these suggestions, I am leaning towards being on grid. This is really a hobby farm and I will still get some solar panels just to play with as a hobby. The utilities company does have a program to buy back and even have a current program encouraging it. So I think I will get hooked up to start with and hopefully add in enough panels to start someday getting some payback.
Still learning more but seems load could still be an issue due to amp drop with running underground if I am conservative on how big a wire I run. Hoping to get some more details from an electrician soon now that I am leaning that way.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2013 09:43am
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I understand hating to pay the $35 per month....which is high as a minimum ..my southern cabin is $14.95 per month and the one in the North Woods is $6.57 per month and was only a 25 dollar connect fee after I cut my R/W to the camp....this company even has a seasonal rate where you can cut it off the winter months ( snowed in) and reconnect in the spring for like 15 bucks--I had rather keep in on --all the time in case I go up in the winter. I think you are making the right move by being on GRID!!!
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