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dovetail
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 02:18am
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Long time lurker, first time poster so please go gentle on me.
I have a cabin in northern MN (east of Bemidji http://goo.gl/oXaFl) and was wonder if anyone else had used solar in the area. I am trying to gauge the solar output before spending any money.
The approximate total electrical devices of the property is
(9) 13 watt CFL (2-3 hours per evening)
(1) Medium fridge (on the entire time we are at the cabin, off otherwise)
(1) 13" LCD TV (1-4 hours per day, depending on my 14 month old son but will be migrated to a tablet charged from the car eventually)
(1) Oven (used maybe once for up to 1 hour per weekend visit)
(1) giant street light the power company requires for line service, automatically runs all night. I think this is wired directly to the transformer on the pole that they both sit on but I guess it could be run through the fuse panel in the house
Currently the place is on-grid but I would be migrating 1-2 circuits at a time to off-grid to a separate panel only as I can afford the time and money to grow the system to support more items. I am not looking to install a grid-tie system as I see those units are very expensive. I do have 2 master electricians and 1 electrical engineer that will be doing any of the actual wiring; gotta love family that wants to use the cabin for deer and bird hunting!
Basically the way the cabin has been operated for the last 60+ years of its electric life is this:
1) Show up
2) Install two huge double fuse holders in panel (to be upgraded to a 100A breaker service sometime before any solar install happens)
3) Plug fridge in
4) Turn on other devices as needed
5) Disconnect fridge
6) Turn off everything else
7) Disconnect fuses
What I am looking for:
1) Show up
2) Flip power on from solar circuit(s)
3) Flip power on from grid circuit(s)
4) Connect fridge
5) Turn on devices I need as I need them
I think that the last items I will migrate to off-grid last or never depending on electrical demand from fridge
So:
1) Is it financially doable with solar that far north?
2) Do I just sound insane for wanting to do it that way?
3) Does anyone else have a setup that has all 120V lines but some dedicated to the RE power and some dedicated to on-grid?
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 02:58am
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You are already in the "financially" best situation being on the grid......a solar setup to run what you are used to running would be another 10k at least.....you cant have much of a monthly electric bill....
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dovetail
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 04:18am
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Forgive me for being dense, could you explain how much solar power I would need to support that. I don't know enough about solar yet to understand how it would be a $10K setup for those items. VT are you figuring the Fridge and oven on solar or not?
Thanks for the quick reply
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 09:15am - Edited by: Dillio187
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the fridge is the killer. Even the best of them use around 1 kwh per day.
The oven (if electric) is not really viable at all without a rather large system. You're talking big inverter, large bank, lots of panels etc. Much more than a 10k investment! If you want to run those items off-grid, you'd be better off with a generator.
As far as splitting your 120V items up, absolutely. Setup a main panel like you would any house or garage, and then install a generator transfer switch onto the circuits you want to power with your inverter. This way you can run them from grid power or your inverter with just the flip of a switch. I have my home wired this way and it's easy and safe!
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Rossman
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 09:21am
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Leave the fridge and stove on grid and move everything else off. A fairly small solar setup will run the rest of that stuff no problem.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 10:06am
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Quoting: dovetail . VT are you figuring the Fridge and oven on solar or not?
Hi, yes I was figuring what you said you wanted to run, the fridge for weekends and the oven an hour on the weekend. Large initial surge with the oven, heavy duty inverter needed, and like Dillio said the fridge will draw about a KW per day and a good size surge with a compressor as well. That street light is unknown, but as you describe has to be a munger too.
You could revise that down to maybe 4-5k if you never stay more than weekends,but still would be a good size system at a good size price even to figure weekend only, and cost added to the rewiring you want to do. No matter what you do, you will spend way more adding solar than just staying on grid.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 10:32am
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I don't know how your hydro billing is done in your area but here, a large part of the bill is a set of monthly fees that you pay regardless of how much electricity you use. In this situation, I would suggest you have a good setup the way you have it. Given you will likely keep the high demand items (stove, fridge )on grid, then the other small things do not add much draw anyway so why go to the expense and complexity of a mixed system? Replace the CFLs with LEDs etc will bring this down more but the actual reduction is likely very small compared to running a stove and fridge. Just not sure it is worth the cost and effort. Other option would be to go off-grid and add a generator to run when you need the high demand items (but this would not solve the fridge issue).
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dovetail
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 10:26pm
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Thanks for all the info guys!
The main reason for the split is just because I have family that love to crank the fridge and freeze to the coldest settings, turn all the lights and act like any power they use is free power. I was thinking if some of the items were "free" then it would reduce the monthly electric bill. As it stands now when my wife's family goes for 3 days the electricity bill for the month is higher then my entire apartment is. Thats 3 days of use compared to my 30 days with 2x 500w PCs and a radio running 24/7! I also have a home theatre system with a fairly powerful receiver and 1000W/2000W subwoofer.
Honestly I think the family is doing more then they admit to in order to burn that much power but cant prove it.
Also there is a wood burning stove for heating and cooking that is being repaired that will replace the oven next year. I am thinking that with the oven out of there then the only item that will be pulling large amounts of power is the fridge, which will stay on-grid, and a few outlets any other large items that need to be used.
Could someone point me towards some LED bulbs that have the same output as a 60W incandescence bulb I would greatly appreciate it as well as any other ideas to reduce the electric load.
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 08:38am
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http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-9-5-Watt-60W-A19-Warm-White-2700K-Dimmable-LED-Light- Bulb-1-Pack-BA19-08027OMF-12DE26-1U110/203991774
I have a few of these and can vouch for them, plus they are available locally.
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tnky03
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 09:33am
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Thanks for sharing that info on the LED bulbs. I will certainly get those to use in our cabin.
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