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derek
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 07:43pm
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Hi there, new to this forum but I am having difficulties trying to come up with a gameplan for my ski cabin. I'll layout my situation! I'm trying to come up with an alternative to an outhouse thats 30 feet from my cabin. Its a ski cabin that will be used all winter in northern canada (quite cold). The cabin does have power (but at 25 times local power rates) so is used very sparingly for lights, clocks etc. Otherwise I use my generator. I have seen some of these composting toilets but there seems to be split opinions on them and i really dont feel like installing something unless I KNOW it will work. If its 800 or 3K, I just want it to work the first time. I do allow the cabin to cool off during the week but keep it from freezing by use of a forced air propane furnace. My wife will kill me if she has to do the frozen poop run any more! Also the cabin is located on a giant rock, so digging for any application is quite hit and miss with where the dirt is. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thank-you!
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Rick004
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 07:55pm
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Check out youtube videos for composting toilets ! This is the way were going when we build this spring ! It's basically a bucket and you sprinkle shavings on top after you've done your business . You keep a composting pile away from the cabin and after a year it's reusable soil ! Apparently if used properly there is very little to no door and the only maintenance is dumping the pail once a week !
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 08:10pm
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Composting ceases at 50 - 55 F. It will restart when it warms up, but cold slows it and freezing definitely preserves it. I speak from experience.
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Steve961
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 08:20pm - Edited by: Steve961
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For cold climates, the composting toilet Rick mentions is probably the best bet. You will have to make an outdoor composting bin, but that shouldn't be too difficult. The commercial indoor composting toilets are not only expensive, they really don't compost very well in cold temperatures.
If you aren't handy, you can buy them pre-built as the Loveable Loo from the link below. They also have a lot of information about how to use and maintain them on their site. If I had to stop using my outhouse, that's what I would get.
Loveable Loo
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 08:29pm
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I have a natures head composting toilet and its great. When I researched it, the issues seemed to be with units that collect both solids and liquids in the same tank.
The NH unit is made from real sturdy materials and is really compact. The only compliant is cost....think mine was 900 shipped. You can build something for quite a bit cheaper if yo put your mind to it.
I have heard but not seen about some incinerating toilets that run from propane. The reports were favorable on them.
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groingo
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 08:44pm - Edited by: groingo
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If your outdoor toilet is a pit toilet this may get you through, it's a Coleman version of the Porta Potty and depending on how many people are using it should get you through a weekend, plus it has a larger seat than most, (no hanging over the sides), when holding tank is full just empty into you outdoor privy and you're done.
Have had mine two years and the only thing I don't use is the built in flush, easier to just keep a gallon of water for rinsing the bowl.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/COLEMAN-FLUSH-TOILET/13848611
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derek
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 08:49pm
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Ok thanks for the input guys. Money isnt really the issue, its more my wife. =0 If i could install something that worked great, I would do it. So thats really what I'm after. I am very handy, so installing anything wont be a problem. If i have to tell my wife to throw shavings ontop of her doo-doo, I'll get one of those looks if you know what I mean. I have heard mixed reviews of the incinerator units as well as the composters. I figured bangin the idea around would drum me up something alot better than a hole in the ground outside! Will any of these composting toilets work well if it spends 4-5 days a week in temperatures a few degrees above freezing? The other 2-3 days the cabin is a sauna most of the time 
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 09:43pm
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I can only speak about the natures head unit....
There is no need to put in shavings after every use. To use it, you flip a lever and go. When done, flip the lever back and close the lid. You then "flush" by cranking a handle on the side and that's it. You always use it sitting down so you never see what's inside it....unless you get up and look.
Once in a while you can add some peat moss. When its full you dump it someplace. The liquid waste is collected in a tank that I suspect would need to be emptied more often with women around. I have read that some modify the tank to empty into a gray water drain thru a tube.
Having the contents compost is not really much of a concern. You just don't want it to stink. Th NH unit has a small fan that removes odors and its really well sealed. Personally I think the NH toilet stinks less than a real one....probably because the fan sucks odors out when in use (little gross sorry).
The evaporation action of moving air combined with the peat moss produces waste that is really not bad to deal with. Much better than a chemical toilet by a lot. Remember the liquid waste does not mix with the solid waste like many other composters. Emptying the contents when frozen will likely be easier than unfrozen.
Probably more info than you needed.....sorry!
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derek
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 10:00pm
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Ok so are the solid and liquid waste holding tanks going to be inside the cabin body or underneath? Also what is this peatmoss? Lol i'm a newb tothis sorry. Something I buy at a garden centre? Or something specially formulated for this application? This unit sounds like a good idea to me?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 10:21pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: derek Ok so are the solid and liquid waste holding tanks going to be inside the cabin body or underneath?
We have a Sun-Mar AC/DC. It's self contained. They have models that can be mounted below the floor. Ours would work better if the cabin was heated through the winter but it is not. Use is biweekly at best from about mid December through April as we lose drive in access after there is too much snow. That means composting ceases. It's an issue we did not expect.
We use a peat moss and wood shavings mix we make up.
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derek
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 11:41pm
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Cant they make some sort of pressurized system with a 12v actuated gate valve that shoots it out a horizontal exhaust vent? Should nearly vaporize by the time it makes it to my neighbours place no? I could add a little rv sani smelly stuff, they would never notice I bet..
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derek
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 11:43pm
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Like a potato gun..
Im going to look into this Nature Head unit Gomer recomends, thanks again!
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 06:17am
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This is actually my largest problem in planning.
I want a very much "regular" toilet system, and my wife absolutely requires one.
I've looked at a few composting toilets but to be honest I've never researched to far, sceptic is not only unaffordable (mostly due to the distance to getting all the equipment there), but it is also impossible for the tank to be cleaned out (also due to the distance and lack of road access).
Having an out house, is not ideal. I don't want to dig or have a 50ft hike to use the washroom, or deal with smell and I really have no interest in dealing with human waste. This is to the point that I was even wondering about putting in a mini sanitation plant and what that would require.
So what are other options? what can be done? are there any inventive ideas regarding human waste and how to avoid actually handling it? Assuming you had water and could have a running flush toilet system what are the options for disposal ?
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 09:10am
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Peat moss is just a bag bought from home depot for 10 bucks. You can also use sawdust i'm told.
The holding tanks are inside as an integral part of the unit. Its 100% self contained. The only downside is that it sits a bit high. If you built it into a recess in the floor you could set it at a better height.
Here's their web site:
http://www.natureshead.net/
Quoting: derek Ok so are the solid and liquid waste holding tanks going to be inside the cabin body or underneath? Also what is this peatmoss? Lol i'm a newb tothis sorry. Something I buy at a garden centre? Or something specially formulated for this application? This unit sounds like a good idea to me?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 10:04am
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Quoting: derek Will any of these composting toilets work well if it spends 4-5 days a week in temperatures a few degrees above freezing?
No. At those temps it becomes a storage vessel. I've seen installations where the composter is in an outbuilding with a solar wall facing south that keeps things warm enough to work fairly well through the winter.
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ericfromcowtown
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 12:05pm - Edited by: ericfromcowtown
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We're in a similar situation. My wife give me that same look when I mention outhouses or anything that doesn't look close to a normal toilet.
I've been looking at both the Nature's Head (mentioned above) and the Airhead composting toilets. Our cabin is going to essentially be a 3 season cabin, so winter (October/November through March!) and the freezing and lack of composting that occurs should not be a problem. If we do decide to visit in the winter, I think we'd just bring a portable toilet with us for the weekend.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 12:43pm
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You can use it in a limited fashion in the winter. Just don't try to rptate the drum in a model like the SunMar.
One thing I do like about the SunMar is that the user does not have to separate the #1 and #2. SunMar has a fkuid overflow you run to a small cess pit. From what I can tell ours never gets to where the overflow is needed. To me that is a plus... you talk about strange looks when you mention wood chips... try explaining the sepoaration to someone who is not too enthused about the whole idea.
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ericfromcowtown
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 08:19pm
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Quoting: MtnDon you talk about strange looks when you mention wood chips... try explaining the sepoaration to someone who is not too enthused about the whole idea.
I hear you MtnDon.
The whole idea of overflows and cess pits for a supposedly self-contained unit seems odd to me, though.
I also read a lot of SunMar reviews that seem to describe incomplete or lack of composting and odour. How do you like yours?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 09:20pm
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Quoting: ericfromcowtown The whole idea of overflows and cess pits for a supposedly self-contained unit seems odd to me, though.
Yes, but as I noted in the years we have had ours it seems we have never overflowed. The hose and pit catchment (very small) looks pristine. I see it as a safeguard system in case of occasional overuse.
Quoting: ericfromcowtown incomplete or lack of composting and odour. How do you like yours?
Hardly ever any odors and on those rare times it is no worse than what some bathrooms smell like after a particular nasty bowel movement. I believe the key is to have the 4 inch vent stack go up as straight as possible and to have sufficient height. Much like a wood stove chimney the stack has tall enough to avoid downdrafting from something higher, like a roof peak. I also believe those who have problems with it composting properly have difficulties because of temperature or maybe because of too many people using it. It gets overloaded with fresh input. Other factors too, like too dry can slow the composting.
We have a friend who uses one in a warmer climate, warmer winter in particular. He has no problems with it not composting.
We like it with reservations. The like parts: easy to use, no separation of the urine required, no hesitation on the part of most visitors to use. Only one person comes to mind .... Reservations... cold weather stops it cold. I actually remove a quantity before it is ready each fall and burn it. We have been thinning the overgrown forest for 6 years and I figure by the time we complete the task there will still be sufficient trash wood to be burned that we can burn the waste that does not compost well. I do that in the fall as a rule. In case we can not burn it we can always dump some into the outhouse pit that we also have.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 09:22pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Let me say that IF we had a well and were not relying on rainfall and hauled in water I would have most likely put in a septic system. But the very likelihood of drilling to 600 feet like a couple others in the area made me have second thoughts. Especially when one of the producing wells (585 ft) is a second hole. The first one went 600 and was dry. Very expensive well.
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larry
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 09:56pm
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if cash is not a issue you should look at incinerating toilets. i did but the price was more then a septic so i oppted out. i found a nice on for about 4k and the company was out west some where..google search.
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larry
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2012 09:59pm
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ecojohn...check it out
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littlesalmon4
Member
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2012 12:33pm
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here is my solution. I do not have one but hope to soon
http://storburn.ca/uses.html
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ericfromcowtown
Member
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2012 03:18pm
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Quoting: littlesalmon4 here is my solution. I do not have one but hope to soonhttp://storburn.ca/uses.html
Looks expensive.
Plus, my neighbours are close by (for those of you on large lots this would probably not be an issue) and I can only imagine explaining to them how my incinerated waste is wafting over their patio. 
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littlesalmon4
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2012 05:17pm
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There should not be much smell if it is hot enough. Crematoriums dont smell. I agree they are not cheap but an easy off grid solution
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ericfromcowtown
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2012 05:34pm
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Quoting: littlesalmon4 There should not be much smell if it is hot enough. Crematoriums dont smell. I agree they are not cheap but an easy off grid solution
I don't doubt that they are odour-free, it's the perception I was considering. Again, that wouldn't be a concern if you are on a larger acerage or are otherwise out-of-sight.
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nicalisa
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2012 09:31pm - Edited by: nicalisa
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I have an electric free non water sunmar composting toilet. I love it (and i am a girl) very little smell and I put it in a little cedar building so it actually smells good!
pretty, functional and doesn't smell:)
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FishPCreek
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2012 10:58pm
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MtnDon,
Above you reference your composting ceases when you get into the peak of winter. Ours (similar unit) has not been "started" yet - hope to the week of Christmas. We insulated the walls of the 'loo room, a 5' x 5' thing, and I did not connect the overflow as teh permit would not allow it, and we will ask gentlemen and hardy others to use the outdoors even in winter - at least for #1s. We put a small in wall electric heater in that room, but it is 2' from the side of the unit so may be too close to run (and expensive!). When your unit serves just a holding tank in the winter, do you have odors then? Ours is direct vented to 3' above a 5/12 pitch roof.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2012 10:54am
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I can't say I notice any difference in odors winter or summer, when the lid is closed. Something I just remembered that I should add to the conversation. If you have a wood burning stove or fireplace you are much more likely to have odors from an indoor composting toilet such as the Sun-Mar. It's the vent pipe that can cause the problem. If the cabin is relatively tight as ours is the air to feed the fire needs to be replaced. In winter with all windows closed that 4 inch toilet vent makes may work in reverse.
I have a fresh air supply for the wood stove. It uses a 3 inch tube through the wall behind the stove, The first reason I installed it was because I had noticed the stove started better and all round worked better with a window cracked open a little. Second was for venting the toilet. I have been on the roof and found quite the noxious smelling draft emanating from the toilet vent.
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FishPCreek
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2012 11:12am
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Thanks MtnDon. The key is a closer outdoor air source for teh stove. Mine does not have one (stove not in yet) but perhaps I should consider that. Is yours just a direct pipe through the wall and it is routed directly into the stove, or does just allow air to the area around the stove so you don't have to crack a window?
I may follow up with more questions about the toilet too, as we will be launching/starting ours after Christmas - cold weather in central PA.
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