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Anonymous
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2012 04:11pm
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I recently bought a silent run yamaha generator with a 12volt outlet and 2 ac outlets. I want to put a small battery bank in at cabin to power a small water pump and some light (3 inside and 2 out side) My question is how should I run the lights as 12v or ac(110) what are the benifts of both.
I am not very savy with electricity or solar power.
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2012 04:35pm
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12V DC lights run from a bank of batteries will be most efficient (use the least amount of electricity). You simply wire your lights to the battery through the proper switches and overload protection and you are done. The generator charges the battery when low, and if you spend $150 you can probably get a PV panel and charge controller that will top off the battery on sunny days.
The downside of 12V is that large loads require larger wire (thicker, or lower AWG). Another downside is that the light fixtures you need will probably be LED's which cost more and are not quite as bright as you might be used to.
If you want to run AC then you will need to install an inverter to power everything when the generator is off. You will loose 10-15% of your battery capacity through inverter inefficiency. You may also be tempted to use light fixtures that provide light above and beyond what is needed to do the job which will consume more power.
Personally, I'm partial to 12V systems since I'm an efficiency whore.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2012 07:32pm
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What is an example of overload protection?
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2012 08:03pm
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Also what is a good place to find 12 volt switchs, what size wiring do I need and where can I find LED lights and led light fixtures.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2012 08:41pm
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Spend some time reading the posts in this section of the forum and you will find all the answers you are looking for, as well as answers to questions you didn't know you had
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Dillio187
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2012 09:32pm - Edited by: Dillio187
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I was going to do the 12V thing in my cabin, but opted for the Morningstar Sure Sine 300 inverter instead. More flexibility and super efficient, will surge up to 600W for 15 or 20 minutes. I have a few 12V items (stereo, backup lights) but I found the ease of installing and wiring for 120V too easy to ignore.
There are cheap 120V LED's available now (I'd paid 10-15 bucks at Menards and HD) that emulate 40 or 60W bulbs.
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skoottamataschm idty
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2012 12:32pm
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I have propane lighting inside as well as 12volt LED lighting. In a coup,e of places I have 120 volt lights hooked to my inverter. The 12V lighting I used was from an idea I took off of this forum using the sockets and LED halogen bulbs. I made a light fixture out of a piece of cedar to fit in with my log cabin. The bulbs were expensive ($20) a piece but use very little power and should last a very long time. They are way brighter than I anticipated and light up my bathroom perfectly. Here is a picture of my light fixture:
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skoottamataschm idty
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2012 12:36pm
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Sorry I guess I can't figure out how to attach a picture here
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2012 03:58pm
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Look in the "General Forum". At the top of the forum is a thread called "How to add pictures to Small-Cabin forum"
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2012 06:20pm
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Iv'e got all my lighting wired up with 12 volt.Hooked to a 3 battery bank witch is charged by a standard automotive battery charger plugged into the generator.When I run the generator to watch tv or computer or stereo the charger is doing it's thing.Work's well,especially when my light bulbs are 13 watt cfl's.My water pump is also 12 volt.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2012 07:42pm
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Depends. There is a lot of opinuon on this matter; most will have a favored solution and what is favored is likely what they are using. IF you keep the electrical loads to only a few lights and a small water pump, 12 VDC will work fine. (I take small pump to mean an RV style water pump). If you want to run a microwave, regular TV and so then it is my opinion that 120 VAC ius the way to go.
I also am of the belief that systems that rely on a generator to replenish the batteries are less satisfactory than systems that have PV modules for battery charging. The batteries will generally not last as long because generator system batteries will generally be left in partial states of charge more frequently than PV powered systems.
And why not make up a name rather than post anonymously. It may just be a hangup of my own, but I like names even if they are fake.
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TheWildMan
Member
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2012 11:05am
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if your using dc power you can use dome lights from cars (auto parts stores have them for $5 for a basic generic replacement), or get lights from an RV dealer (higher price), just 2 wires positive and negative and can use clips to hook the line to the battery (same as for a car). these are incandescant and use a lot of power. DC compact florecent are available but hard to find and may be expensive.
a cheap inverter on the battery will give you AC power, plug in a lamp with a CF bulb (60 watt equivelant CF bulb uses 13 watts of power, add in inefficency for inverter its about 18 watts an hour, just plug in a lamp or basic AC fixture wired to use a plug)
AC bulbs are cheap and found everywhere and are easier to replace.
long story short, DC lights are simple to set up, but can be expensive and dificult to replace bulbs, AC is more complex to install but bulbs are cheap and easy to find.
i set my place to run both, i set up the ac line i described after i found it hard to get replacement dc bulbs in CF
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sparky1
Member
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2012 01:33pm - Edited by: sparky1
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CFL 15 watt DC screw lamp fitting are easy to find
Equal to 60 watt AC
Camco #55-8030 I paid $9.79 on the Net 3 months ago.
sparky1
i have 7 of them in my place.
here they are on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-41313-12V-15W-Fluorescent-Light/dp/B000EDSSJS
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GomerPile
Member
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2012 03:40pm
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Follow up on the comment about small pumps....the RV pumps obviously work well on 12V and can pump a lot of water even with a bit of lift.
Another option that can replace *most* well pumps is a unit from Sun Pumps (there are others too). They have units that can draw water 230 feet (into open tank, less with pressure tank). There are also rebuildable with repair kits and DVD instructions.
My system pumps into a 50 PSI pressure tank and draws 36-60 watts when running. It only supplies about 1.5GPM, so you will need to use a larger pressure tank if you require high GPM for something like car washing. The low power draw makes it perfect for PV systems. With a timer and dual pressure switches you can have it refill your tanks at peak sun hours.
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skootamataschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 02:44pm
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12 v lights
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skootamataschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 02:47pm
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Lights with cfl bulb that run off inverter.
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skootamataschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 02:48pm
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Thanks to tomchum for helping me post the pics. I guess mine were too big to upload so I had to re-size them.
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skootamataschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 02:50pm
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The switch for the vanity light is wired into an outlet box in this log
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bobbotron
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 03:20pm
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I really want to like 12V lighting, but I've found the wiring to be annoying, as it's easy to find good LED bulbs online, but the rest is pretty non standard. I think I'm going to experiment with a few CFL bulbs with our inverter, for reduced wiring headaches. Two or three 13W CFLs should be lots of light for our little cabin, and our 400W inverter *should* handle that no problem.
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skootamataschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 07:59pm
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You can use regular 120v items and wire it for 12v. Switches, outlets etc that you would use for 120 can be wired for 12v.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2012 08:06pm
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Quoting: skootamataschmidty Switches, outlets etc that you would use for 120 can be wired for 12v.
...with certain caveats that should be minded.....
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2012 05:42pm
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Yes,I ran 12 guage BX cable for all my 12 volt lighting(metal caseing)The 3 colors of wires that come in this cable are black white and green or bare copper.I simply colored the white wire red and left the black wire black.Sniped the ground wire off.So now I know,if the light fixture has a black and red wire,it's strictly 12 volt and can't get confused with 120 volt wireing.All my 120 volt wireing is ran in 12 guage romex just like standard household wireing.Black white and green.Most important thing is to fuse ALL wireing.By not putting in fuse blocks,you are just asking for trouble.I learned my lesson one time by burning up the 12 volt wireing on my tractor.It's a scary thing seeing flames coming out from under the gas tank.
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