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mojo43
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 10:04am
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Can someone recommend an easy way to heat a tiny cabin (108 square feet with a small loft) without electricity and without putting in a wood stove? I looked into kerosene heaters and they seem like a fantastic option, but I am really confused on whether or not they are safe to not vent them. Can someone recommend something?
Thanks in advance...
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 10:31am - Edited by: GomerPile
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Propane fireplaces designed for boats:
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/propane.php
The old standby Mr Buddy:
http://www.mrheater.com/ProductFamily.aspx?catid=41
I know you said "no wood" but here are some wood options:
http://www.marinestove.com/index.htm
http://www.shipmatestove.com/
I own the Skippy from Shipmate....heats a 66sf cabin very well, could use more wood capacity.
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mojo43
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 11:22am - Edited by: mojo43
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Does anyone have any experience with one of these??
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/1/Hunting/Heaters/PRD~0762134P/Kero -World+Convection+Kerosene+Heater.jsp?locale=en#product_aa
Supposedly you can use it indoors without any vents and it is safe. Is it really safe?
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naturelover66
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 11:35am
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Do some research.... I would never use a kerosene heater indoors.
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 11:37am
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I believe that I have read every thread on this forum about it and I think I am more confused now.... What is wrong with them?
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 11:43am
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There were many many people that became statistics with the "it will be ok" way of thinking , don't you and whom ever may be with you become a statistic. Even those buddy heaters have killed many people , don't burn combustibles inside without venting.
Be safe , save some money and go the right way, an Empire DV210SG vented propane non-electric wall heater is what you need ...just google that model.....you won't need the optional electric blower......move the air around with a little DC fan hooked to a battery....
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groingo
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 11:49am - Edited by: groingo
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I had a 95 square foot place, tried wood heat and cooked myself out so downsized stove and found I was constantly having to tend it and for overnight heat forget it.
Kerosene just by its nature requires some sort of exhaust to the outside and the smell will gag you in short order.
Propane has a great many options, I always vent to and from the outside regardless of what any manufacturer says and always regardless leave a window cracked a bit, best to be safe than Coyote food!
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project_north
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 12:07pm
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I installed this one in my 108 sq. ft. cabin with loft in Ontario (should be similar conditions). It worked great to minus 10. Haven't been there when it's colder:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200362081_200362081
Vented to the outside for safety.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 03:57pm
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I am a strong believer in NOT using any type of unvented heater in a living space. Not kerosene, not propane, nada! We have the big brother to that Housewarmer wall heater from Northern Tool. (Housewarmer is an Empire brand). It works great without the need for any electrical power at all. Works well and vents exhaust directly outside as it draws combustion air from the outside as well. And it's safe to use, no worry about CO poisoning.
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larry
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 06:48pm
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Quoting: VTweekender don't burn combustibles inside without venting.
well said! anything that burns give off carbon monoxide and that will kill you. if it doesn't you will at best feel tired, have headaches and dizziness. if it burns, vent it.
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Seto
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2012 08:15am
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i had a crackpot uncle who used kerosine heaters in his house for 8 years, the term squaller and filth is an understatement, anyway after the first 4 years there was a cake of soot an inch thick on the cealing and walls from the soot and smoke given off and building up. as a very short term thing in emergencies it might work if vented, but more than a day or 2 would be bad, i can only imagine what breating in that stuff would do.
a MR heater propane heater is a much better option for a cabin, though i prefer a little cast iron wood stove in my 140 Sq foot cabin
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mojo43
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2012 12:31pm
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Thanks for all of the information. I am wondering if anyone knows where I can pick up a propane vented unit in Ottawa? I have been calling around, but I can't seem to find anything!
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2012 04:50pm
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I'm thinking I want both for my 12x16. A small wood stove, and a direct vent propane furnace
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2012 05:51pm
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Maybe you can't find it in Canada because of the stricter regulations?
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bugs
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2012 06:33pm
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Hi mojo43
It all depends on your perception of risk.... Is it worth the risk to use a non vented heater???? Some say no...we, like many others, said yes and have used a big buddy heater for 3 years to heat our shack. According to some we should be pushing up daisies but these heaters are commonly used inside in well ventilated areas. We always used it with a window wide open and never when we were sleeping. We felt the risk to be very low compared to other risks associated with the cabin ie driving out to the shack with drunken maniacs on the road, learning to operate chain saws/brush cutters (still have a full set of digits and two eyes  , etc, and dealing with idiot hunters armed with an arsenal of automatic weapons just in case there are terrorists lurking in the woods along with the lowly game. Of course there are respectful hunters too.
That said we have since gone with a wall mounted vented system because the buddy heater took up almost 4 sq ft of valuable counter space when accounting for clearances (our shack is 77 sq ft so space is at a premium similar to your situation), it was a pain to setup with hoses going through a window etc, it was not very efficient with a window wide open, it did not have a thermostat and it did have a slight odor to it.
We had the same problem finding a wall vented heater in SK as you appear to be having. You might look for a Longvie heater. I think they are imported by a Que firm. We got ours from a company in Nanimo, BC. They actually put a package together with all the bits and shipped it to us. All we had to do was assemble it on site. Worked slick.
The Longvie vented heater we bought mounts neatly on the wall, is only about 7" deep, 15" w, 22" hi, so it saves lots of space when not in use. It has a thermostat so we should not be cooked out of the shack and it has a pilot light so turning a knob is all the setup we have to do. We still crack a window open tho just for fresh air and to hear the coyotes and owls at night. I am a bit apprehensive with that all the connections we novices made will remain properly sealed but that is a risk I will have to take.
Good luck
bugs
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mojo43
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2012 08:19pm
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Thanks for all the info Bugs... I will definitely check them out. I think we are going to stick to the wall mounted propane so thanks for the canadian company suggestions!
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mojo43
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2012 05:37pm
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Ok I am going to purchase the wall mounted vented unit. Can anyone tell me how hard it is to install this? I have been looking at the manual and it says that it should be installed by a professional. Does this mean it is hard???
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200362081_200362081
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2012 05:46pm
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I remember from another thread on these that most install them themselves, and also remember you get fooled on the initial installation a bit because they take a long time to prime from the tank and you think it isn't working.
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bugs
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2012 06:08pm - Edited by: bugs
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Hi again mojo
It is a tad intimidating. Attached is the parts diagram I got with our setup from the retailer. They were very good and answered all my silly questions and put everything into a kit. Flaring seems to be one thing that would have been beyond me to do well. They supplied all the copper tubes flared ready for assembly. All I had to do was teflon the screw connections but NOT the flarings.
When it came to the install we had worries about drilling the 4.25" hole through the wall without hitting a stud and too many nails. But we were lucky with our test/pilot holes and it went very smoothly. (Our stud finder was not able to find studs through our cedar and spruce interior wall finishing.) The lady wife and I are still married and we only had one minor blood spatter incident.
There are some odd code laws such as the retailer provided us with 9 feet of copper tubing plus another 2 feet to go around the corner of our shack to be far enough away from the heater exhaust. A few more feet and we would have been back at the heater hole our shack is so small. There are other codes about distances from windows etc. We could not accommodate the latter but open windows and heater on are mutually exclusive events so we are not too worried about that. (We will keep another window open for fresh air on Mexican chilli nights)
Good luck with it. Hope it works for you.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2012 06:21pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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I guess it's a personal matter as far as the difficulty level. I thought the instructions were clear. I bought a hole saw of the required size to make it easier. The hardest part for me was that I had some electrical wires running horizontally through the wall where I wanted to install it. So I had to position the heater higher up the wall than I really wanted in order to clear the wires without having to redo some electrical. I had photographs of the unfinished but wired interior walls to help me. Studs are easily found with a stud finder; great tool.
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2012 01:11pm
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Thanks for all of the help. I just ordered it so I guess I'll see how hard it is!
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2012 05:37pm
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I put in an Orbus 30,000 btu,through wall vented propane heater last year.No electric needed.Just propane.Saved me from freezing to death all winter.Eat's up about 100 pounds in 3 weeks but my 12x20 cabin was not insullated yet and very drafty.This year should prove much,much better.I'd be happy with a 100 pound tank full once a month.If you do decide to go with non vented,Your are gonna have tons of condensation problems.I know it's a great thought to know youir getting 100% heat out of your propane but thoes side effects are a real pain in the,,,vein!
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project_north
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 05:18pm
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The hardest part for me was hooking up the propane and having that done by somebody who knew what he was doing. The actual installation of the unit you are wanting (the one I recommended) was easy.
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project_north
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 05:20pm
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It's true what VTweekender says about priming the system before you light it. It takes a long time after you open the propane for it to be fully ready to light. Like 20 mins or more for mine.
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 05:38pm
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I was just going to use a standard BBQ propane tank. So hopefully that will get rid of the hard part...
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bugs
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 05:54pm
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Mojo don't forget a regulator. I gather it is not advisable to directly connect most heaters to a propane tank with a plain hose.
We were advised to get a two stage/dual stage regulator compared to the usual single stage one that we use for barbecues.
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mojo43
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 06:02pm
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I have an extra regulator that you hook up to a BBQ. I'll have to read the instructions to find out if that will work. Is a dual stage reg better and safer? I am not even sure what a reg does, but I assume if makes sure that there are no bursts of too much propane sent from the tank?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 06:50pm
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The regulator drops the high pressure from the tank down to the quite low pressure most grills, etc use. The dual stage regulator drops and controls the pressure in two steps for better pressure and volume control. FYI, the regulator system used on the large home style propane tanks is a two stage. Usually the first stage regulator is on the tank and the second stage regulator may be at the house. That ensures sufficient high volume delivery to all the homes appliances (along with using the right sized pipes).
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2012 06:56pm
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Note on small tanks (20# and so on). They can not deliver sufficient volume for many high BTU devices, such as large heaters. Many larger heaters require use with a 100# or larger tank. This has to do with the surface area of the propane in the tank; one reason why home tanks are normally horizontal. (But don't try using a tank meant to be vertical on their side.) This becomes more of a problem as the temperatures fall and as the tank level decreases. Also some small regulators may not be able to deliver sufficient volume for some appliances, even with a larger tank.
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mojo43
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2012 08:04pm
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It sounds like some people have already installed ths unit such as bugs... I was planning to use a flexible gas line. Does this mean that i won't have to deal with flaring?
I just received my package in the mail. The wall installation sounds pretty easy, but hooking it really has no info on hooking it up to a bbq propane tank. Can someone help?
Thanks in advance...
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