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WY_mark
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2012 11:08pm
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Hi everyone. I'm the new kid and super excited to be building a 20x30 off grid cabin in se Wyoming. For now we are planning weekends or 4-5 days for two people pretty much year round but probably less in winter. We have very good wind and excellent sun year round ( no tree cover).
We will eventually drill a well (300-400ft) and have septic, but for now we can't afford either. We are prohibited from having an outhouse and are supposed to have a water flush toilet but know others who do not and there is no inspection or way anyone would know we had a composting toilet. Hard winter freezes are highly likely.
While at the cabin we'd like to have a small fridge, few lights, fan, maybe a tv but I'm lobbying hard for no tv allowed, I'd really like to be able to use an electric skillet.
I would love your opinions on what to do for potty solutions. I can't decide if a $1500 ne toilet is worth it for 3-4 years before septic. Indoors is a must as it gets windy and freezing often.
I'm also stumped on power. I really want a turnkey system but can't decide what to get. If I have a battery system am I in trouble if it is freezing for 2 unattended months? We easily have 15mph sustained wind and I'm actually concerned about it holding up in the sustained 75mph storms that come off the mtn. I honestly don't think we will face many of the issues people face with unsustained wind, but we also have 320 days of sun per year....what to do?
Thanks for all of the great reading o far.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 11:39am - Edited by: Malamute
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Give up on the elctric skillet unless you want to run a generator, those type electric appliances have a high draw. A solar/wind system can get wiped out pretty fast with those sort of things. I'd look into propane fridge, stove, and water heater. They can be salvaged from campers and motor homes, sometimes it's worthwhile buying one for the major appliances and selling it again if you can find one that everthing works, is older and reasonably priced. They (campers) also have small propane water heaters. They are fine for kitchen duty, and even showers if you care carefull with water use.
If your batteries are fully charged, you shouldn't have much trouble with them freezing. You can also set them up so they get some passive solar gain in the day, and insulated around them. Others may have more input on that, but I didnt have any trouble with my batteries when I had a solar system. I'm farther north than you are.
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exsailor
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 02:21pm
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With good Sun and plenty of wind a combination of solar and wind power sounds like a sound system approach. I would store you batteries in an outside battery box, when charging they create hydrogen gas, which is explosive. Paint the battery box black for passive solar heating the batteries in the winter. I wouldn't worry too much about your batteries freezing; I have never found a battery that was froze or that had froze in a junkyard. Look at the wattage of your skillet or use a device that measures current draw. Malamute is right though they do draw a lot of power.
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dvgchef
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 03:22pm
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I cannot speak to the solar, but I know a thing or two about toilets. I have moldering privies that work well, but are (by design) outside. For indoor use I recommend the "lovable loo" see http://humanurehandbook.com/ for more info. You can purchase one pre-made or build your own.
A good friend was horrified at the idea of this until his septic system backed up and he was forced to use one. He loves it - the only odor he has is the scent of the sawdust he uses.
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 03:46pm - Edited by: GomerPile
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Natures Head http://www.natureshead.net/ makes a really well built composting unit. I own one and it 1000000000% DOES NOT STINK. There is a very small (~150mA draw) that removes odors. I have a 66sf cabin and could not have a stinky loo in that small a space.
It fits in a very small space, easy to empty, etc etc. Only problem is that it costs like $900. Its the kind of item you buy once and use forever....very high quality.
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bugs
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 06:07pm
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WY_mark
Just a few thoughts:
The loo: If an inside toilet is required than I would size your bathroom during the build to fit a Natures Head or =ve but maybe start out with a composting system using saw dust or shavings. They are extremely cheap to build and operate and seem to work very well. Give it a try and maybe you will find that it works for you.
Electric: If you NEED an electric skillet simply size the solar setup panels and battery storage to accommodate its use or use a combination solar/generator. Refrigerators are likely best with propane or some such.
Maybe change the tv to a laptop computer. The latter would likely use less power and you can take it home to charge it. And one less thin for people to steal when they break into your cabin.
Charged batteries will not freeze unless you get into very extreme temps for long periods of time. Ours have survived weeks of -30C and below with no ill effects. Also sealed deep cycle marine batteries do not give off appreciable gases so can be stored within the confines of a cabin. Altho they do cost $$$ and take up space so if you can put the batteries outside and use non sealed batteries you can save some money and space.
Good luck with your build.
bugs
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WY_mark
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 06:49pm
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thanks for all of the info so far!
I think we'll skip the electric skillet and maybe go with propane - perhaps all around.
The bathroom will be built for a "normal" toilet as we plan on upgrading to a well and septic at some point down the road. the sawdust idea is fabulous and we'll be doing that.
Question on propane fridges and stoves, it looks like a lot of people are going very DIY and repurposing rv components. I see that as money spent now on something that may not be a very high standard that we'll want to replace in 3-5 years as we continue to upgrade and spend more time there. Does anyone have a favorite source for new propane appliances? those of you with them, how do you find your gas use measuring out?
thanks!
Mark
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WY_mark
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 06:51pm
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p.s. I priced a few solar options to give enough juice for 2 people for 2-4 days (a handful of cfl bulbs, laptop charging, cell phone charging and possibly a ceiling or other fan and we're at almost $10k with all of the switches and circuits. One sales guy said people often skip what he considers essential safety components, but those components are almost half of the cost. Does anyone have a favorite under $5k solution (solar) that isn't a fire or safety risk?
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suburbancowboy
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 06:58pm
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A couple of thing. You might want to either buy and old trailer and live in it on the property for awhile to help you decide what you really want before taking the big plunge. It will help you decide power needs, gas electrical, wind or solar power. Another way to go it to build a bunk house, say 12X16. You will leave lots of building skills and have a place to stay while you build the big place. This is the route I took and glad it did. My place if off grid and self contained. I have seen both work well. This way you can enjoy the property, get way and save money while you decide what you really want. Most success I have seen comes with a couple of years worth of planning.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 16 Aug 2012 04:26am
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Quoting: WY_mark p.s. I priced a few solar options to give enough juice for 2 people for 2-4 days (a handful of cfl bulbs, laptop charging, cell phone charging and possibly a ceiling or other fan and we're at almost $10k
Thats way out of line for a smaller system....install a transfer box with a breaker is really all you need ....consult with http://www.backwoodssolar.com and they will point you in the right direction...they are experts and honest..let them know you are on a budget and will use imported panels. You only need about a 400 watt panel system, way under 5k to build....use two hefty 6v golf cart batteries and buy those locally.
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