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rockies
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 05:52pm - Edited by: rockies
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It's surprising today how most of western society is so phobic about human waste when you consider that only 120 years ago most people were still using outhouses or bowls under the bed. Now any contact with waste in regards to using a composting toilet gets looks of disbelief or the "EWW" sound when mentioned. I'm looking at the "Natures Head" composting toilet. I never understood the practice of putting in a big septic field and system in order to handle the small amount of "blackwater" from a toilet. Just keep it out of the system to begin with. One thing about the Nature's Head I like is that the urine and the solids are collected in separate tanks. I have read that the addition of urine to a composting mix basically stops it and it takes time to restart (I guess it's the ammonia in the urine that kills the bacteria needed for compost). You have to empty the urine container every couple of days and the solids every few months, but the toilet is a small, self contained unit that was originally designed for boats.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 05:55pm
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If I'm not mistaken are there not composting toilets that divert solids and liquids and have a collection box outside?
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beachman
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 05:57pm
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An update on the Centrex 2000 NE. We have used this all last season in NB Canada an no smells, no leaks, no problems. It seems to be the answer for us and due to the low-water toilet, it works much like a conventional home unit. We use a separate drainage system for the grey water. All works well. Note: we use the camp very little in the Winter but do use the toilet when there -just a holding tank then.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 06:41pm
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Composting toilets don't have to be complex or expensive to be very functional and beautiful. Here is an example.
Bj_with_cabinet_2_re.jpg
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scout100
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 03:51pm
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And, just for the record - nature intended for most mammals to poop on the surface of the planet. Humans are the only mammals that bury it deep underground where sun, rain, and air cant get at it.. Or pipe it away somewhere to pollute the oceans. This is understandable, heck we live in close proximity communities.. BUT, if your out in the woods and nobody is around for miles... The best and most environmentally friendly disposal method is to just dump it right out in the open and on the surface of the earth where atmosphere can go to work on it.. Make sure your its far enough away that you cant smell it.. Decaying human poop smell is extremely FOUL... Way worse, than cat or dog poop smell
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 05:44pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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Rockies-
I think I agree with you that we have a hypersensitive reaction to our own waste, but still I think it's a good idea to be as careful as possible, particularly where there are a lot of people in a given area. Yes, if you are out in the middle of nowhere so what if you poop on the ground. The plains Indians just up and left when the area around their camp got foul.
But look at Mexico. Every time I've gone there I've gotten sick, and that's 100% because of bacteria from human digestive systems that wasn't gotten rid of effectively. In the mountains where my property is, there is a very low population density but still there are E. coli breakouts now and then due to aging and failing septic systems that were not designed or installed very well to begin with 30-40 years ago.
I'm in favor of composting systems that work and are maintained, and in particular in remote cabins far from others. But I'm also strongly in favor of the standard septic system with tank and drain field, because when working correctly there's no maintenance required to keep it safe, it is safe by default.
You are quite right that 100 years ago most people had no indoor plumbing. Disease rates were also much higher then. We give modern medicine most of the credit for the excellent public health we enjoy, but the reality is that the main reason for that is not penicillin and open heart surgery, it's the lowly sewer pipe that takes away the source of the problem.
I'm very glad I spent a lot of money on my septic, but then I'm close to town, not in an extreme remote area, so it's required and a good idea. But 30 miles from anything, well, that's different.
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rockies
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 06:24pm
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Hi Silver water lady. There are systems that have a separate holding tank (usually located in the basement or crawlspace under the toilet) but it has to be kept warm in order for the composting to happen and most designs still combine the urine and solids down one pipe. Since a lot of cabins are built on piers placing the holding tank can get tricky (getting access and protection from animals, etc). Usually these separate tank designs are for heavy usage. I would rather keep the entire unit indoors where it is warm and easily cleaned. I would still prefer not to have any waste enter into a septic field, but I'm not sure what I have to build or install in order to handle the "greywater" from the shower,sinks and washer. Do you need a leach field or can you just use a pit? On a side note, London England was the first big city to separate their sewage from their drinking water sources when they built their underground system out of bricks starting in 1858. In fact, the sewer was so beautifully built that the city sold tickets and took people on tours of the underground system.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 08:26pm
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Quoting: bldginsp You are quite right that 100 years ago most people had no indoor plumbing. Disease rates were also much higher then. We give modern medicine most of the credit for the excellent public health we enjoy, but the reality is that the main reason for that is not penicillin and open heart surgery, it's the lowly sewer pipe that takes away the source of the problem.
This is it for sure man!
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Rossman
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 08:28pm
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Quoting: rockies I'm not sure what I have to build or install in order to handle the "greywater" from the shower,sinks and washer. Do you need a leach field or can you just use a pit?
Talk to the health dept in your area, or the equivalent for your municipality. In some places even for greywater you need a septic system.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 08:53pm
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You definitely have to think outside the box with this subject. The problem with waterborne systems is that they put off solving what to do with the waste to future generations. septic fields eventually become saturated and sewage sludge is always a big problem that is getting bigger. In Joe Jenkins book he talks about a tribe of people who live in northern India who use their waste to grow their food and they are the healthiest people on the planet. I can't remember their name. Nobody even considers using soldier flies to help digest the waste because for one thing it could put a lot of civil servents and waste management businesses out of business. If we didn't mix our poo and if we assisted nature in doing what she does best, we could easily eliminate waste transmitted diseases. Here is a good article on composting that covers the social issues very well.
I personally think that he overstates the dangers as most people do, and normal common sense hygiene will eliminate almost all the disease transmission problems. Without being too descriptive, many modern socially acceptable acts, lend themselves to hand to mouth exposure to bacteria and viruses but few people get digestive diseases from it. If they did, people would change their behavior. Nobody likes vomiting and diarrhea that I know of.
I have six rules that I advolcate. 1. Don't mix your poop with other peoples poop outside your family. 2. Don't mix your poop with your pet's poop. 3. Don't liquify your poop with water or urine. 4. Practice good hygiene. 5. Segregate and be selective of the food you grow with poop. 6. If you are composting poop, wash and cook all your food thoroughly.
Many people are disgusted at the idea of eating food grown with humanure compost. They have never been really hungry. The fact remains that composting is easy and safe and well suited for off-the-grid living.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2013 09:36pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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With the advent of 'green' building practices increased attention is being paid to grey water systems and their engineering. They are generally less expensive than black water septic systems. The tanks don't need to be as big and the drain fields don't either. Some systems sprinkle the water on landscaping, most deliver it underground at a shallow level where it is available to plant roots.
So your local planning/building dept may be more receptive to these kinds of systems in an effort to support 'green' practices, and if you search I think you'll find a fair amount of info on how to design them.
Your standard septic system is sized large and deep to handle the volume of grey water and the danger of black water. If all the grey was diverted, the volume of black water would be far less. But as one poster said, why mix the poop with water to begin with, causing you to have to dispose of the water?
The answer is that a water based septic system works by default without people having to take correct action, or suffer the consequences. Just flush and away it goes, no more work or fuss, that is, until the drain field chokes up years from now.
Dry composting systems work when properly attended to, and if in the right temperature environment. But that's the catch- they work only IF, not by default
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rayyy
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 05:12pm - Edited by: rayyy
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Iv'e recently spoken to a friend that has been off the grid for years and years and he sweares by his Sunmar.Even with 4 people in his household it works great for him.My bucket toilet has been great,too.Every morning when I go out to do chores,that's the first thing I do is dump the bucket into my composting bin.A few hand full's of wood shavings tossed into the bucket and it's good to go for another day.Takes about 60 seconds to do.I know pushing down on the flush handle is really convenient but with no septic or leach field,,,what do you do.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2013 06:11pm
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I used a Sunmar for a while, it worked okay, but the only problem was the flies. They bred in it and I couldn't get rid of them. Other than that it worked fine, at sea level with no freezing.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2013 06:24am
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Flies (sewer gnats specifically) can be a problem and that is why you need to be able to empty out ALL the contents easily and regularly. Any residue will harbor eggs and you will continue to have the problem. To me it doesn't make sense to keep composting waste in your home when you can easily carry it outside like the trash and compost it away from your residence. This will completely eliminate the problem with sewer gnats. A simple system like that also has the advantage that it doesn't require a basement or crawl space access to use.
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brokeneck
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2013 10:31am
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Our system had 2 RV low fluch toilets seperate from th composting unit. We simpley enclosde the base unit and heated the little soace with a couple of 60 watt bulbs worked great even at 9200 feet .. we just eclose our base unit
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gersus
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 09:35am
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So, probably a silly question but here it goes...
These dry flush toilets.... I would think you would probably need to clean it often to remove ummm skid marks...? That I would think would be inconvenient. Otherwise I think these composting toilets sound like a great idea.
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Bridge Boy
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 11:59am
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My experience with the composting toilet would be to invest the extra money for a septic system. Northern climate like Don has stated and others that experienced the gnats issue was a concern. Decided to make the change and replace with septic. Very satisfied.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 12:14pm
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It depends on which kind you get. Most are direct drop, I think. Some urine diverting systems like the Airhead and the Natures Head use a trap door that has to be opened and closed and they occasionally can leave residue on the trap door. The offer some solutions.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 13 Nov 2013 12:21pm
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Quoting: Bridge Boy My experience with the composting toilet would be to invest the extra money for a septic system. Northern climate like Don has stated and others that experienced the gnats issue was a concern. Decided to make the change and replace with septic. Very satisfied.
The cost of a remote urine diverting composting toilet system can be very minimal with easy installation and very low repair costs. Septic systems work well until they don't. I had one in Texas and it was a constant source of problems and not small ones. If you live on the waters edge or on a granite ledge or you don't get good perk test results, you are talking about a lot of money if you can do it at all. Portable or remote composting systems are simple, water free and odor free if used correctly, which is easy to do. No permits are required to use a portable system in most places. Portable systems can be made to look permanent.
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rtayloe896
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2014 02:17pm
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After checking out the web, the Separett Villa seems to have the most positive comments. I love the fact that it uses the newer technology that separates the liquids and solids. No sewage is created, so no sewage smell and it's much easier to deal with each waste separately. The solids collected just get dumped into a composter and the liquid just leaches away or can be collected for fertilizer. Check them out at www.separett.ca.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2014 04:54pm
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You might also check out this website. www.c-head.com and look at the BoonJon system of managing organic waste from the kitchen, garden and toilet. The BoonJon system uses thermophilic composting, and black soldier fly and earthworm technology to reduce the volume and treat the waste. The C-Head urine diverting composting toilet is inexpensive and converts the waste material away from the residence, eliminating problems with gnats and other vermin that can be attracted to the composting material. This is a system that I devised and use and has been incredibily successful. I am currently working on a bood that describes the process in detail.
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Compost Guru
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2014 10:54am
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This can be found on Sun-Mar's web site! 
http://sun-mar.com/insta_cent_wint.html
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2014 04:28pm
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I don't understand why anybody would want to compost their waste inside their home. It is so easy to collect it in a urine diverting, moldering toilet and then occasionally take it outside to compost in a proper composting bin. This eliminates bugs too, at least with the C-Head because it has a place to put a pest strip. Zero bugs. During the winter, you can store your solid waste in five gallon buckets until the spring where it can be put in the composting bin. And the waste does not smell like sewage, ever. No honey buckets or outhouses required. No polluting the ground water either.
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creeky
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 10:05am
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I thought this post had a link to bokashi...
Bokashi is a bacterial culture that digests your waste matter. you add it to your composting mix. the culture is available on line, but it also quite simple to make yourself.
google bokashi toilet.
(boy. topics like this do bring out the "1" posters with a link to a commercial product)
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 10:47am - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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Quoting: Fireboat52 I don't understand why anybody would want to compost their waste inside their home
me either... I took a 300 gallon diesel farm fuel tank buried it....ran 75 ft of new type infiltrator and it works great!!! I had backhoe labor $300/tank $100 / pipe $100 bucks or so...so $500 bucks whole system
( I had one at my old hunting camp that I did with a 200 gallon farm tank/50 foot of drain pipe) still works after 25 years. I have friends with hunting campers / small camps bury a 55 gallon drum and drain pipe works great!!
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 01:14pm
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Burying your waste removes the problem in the present, but it can pollute your ground water and effect your well. Fecal contaminated drinking water is probably the number one way that disease is transmitted around the world. It is so easy to build a simple composting tower and transfer your solid waste to it using a urine diverting composting toilet, that it should be the number one choice. It never floods, or overfills or contaminates the ground water. It is super cheap and can be made to look nice, even decorative with plants. And you can use the compost to build up a garden area for use in emergencies. You can use the urine to keep wildlife away by pouring it around the perimeter of your property. Good uses all around. Just my take.
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creeky
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 04:24pm
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yes. more pr/marketing companies distributing undigested compost 
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 06:42pm - Edited by: Fireboat52
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Actually, I am just a one man show. I've spent the past four years developing what I think is the best system for managing organic waste without plumbing and without polluting. I know that some people find that interesting and useful and so I comment. I would like to have a discussion with someone on what they think is a better idea. Composting your stuff in your house has a lot of problems associated with it as does burying your waste. A better system is to crap in the comfort of your home  (no outhouse for me) and then transfer it outside to a composting bin where you can convert it to something useful and not pollute the ground water so that future generations can enjoy the place too. Besides, with what is going on with our economy, you may need to live in your cabin for a while. Just some thoughts.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 07:11pm
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Quoting: Fireboat52 and then transfer it outside to a composting bin where you can convert it to something useful
I speed up the process by a single FLUSH.....
make the grass green,,,
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Cabin_is_heaven
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2014 11:12am
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Haven't read the entire thread...working on it...lol. Just wanted to say that my wife and I use Nature's Head composting toilet. We use peat moss as the medium inside holding tank. The vent fan runs off of a 12volt battery. That battery is maintained by 15w solar charger/desulphator...made by BatterMINDer. We love it. No smell. Works great. But was like $950 shipped. Ouch.
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