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bostonman98
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 11:22
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I am curious about other peoples experiences with compost toilets. Where I'm hoping to build, Central-East New Hampshire, I'll either have to put in a septic, an incinerator, or a compost toilet. I'm leaning towards the compost toilet for environmental and price reasons but research is giving many mixed messages.
Are they a pain in the ass?
Do they work?
I'm looking to the SunMar Centrex 2000, anyone have experience with this one? Looking to be about 2-4 people regularly and 6-8 people occasionally.
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idacabinrat
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 11:40
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I have the same question. We are in North Idaho, cabin is basically 3 season use and I was considering the Natures Head. I am just not sure about the whole winter storage deal.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 14:35
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Composting stops in the cold weather. Stops at about 50-55 F. At that temp and colder it becomes a storage vessel. At freezing and below you create a frozen lump that resists turning. It can be a problem. I wish I had figured this out before we bought ours. Cold temperature problems were never mentioned and I was not bright enough to ask ahead of time.
Our 8800 foot elevation is too cold most of the year for much composting to happen. If the cabin was occupied full time and the toilet indoors where it would then be warm all year there would be no problem.
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Aqua
Member
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 17:55
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I read plenty about composting toilets and never knew about cold temp problems. Sheesh!
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bostonman98
Member
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 18:00
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Maybe could get around this by keeping the holding tank in a heated area. A little crazy but so is a septic system.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 21:18
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Quoting: Aqua I read plenty about composting toilets and never knew about cold temp problems. Sheesh!
The mfg want to keep it a secret in case it prevents a sale.
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yankeesouth
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2012 11:10
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So Don.....
In that 20/20 hindsight we all possess, as far as your personal experience goes what are the top 3-5 pros about having a composting toilet and top 3-5 cons? I'll be honest......I am still wavering on putting one in. My concern is the 8-10 times I will use the cabin from November to March.
What real world worries and/or problem can I expect? If you had to do it over would you go with a dry flush or low flush? I think many folks have seasonal cabins and, as with mine, are unable to keep a composter in a heated place or heated all year. Thanks ahead of time for your insight.
Matt
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2012 13:07
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The big plus is no septic tank. But that can be negated if your location identifies kitchen waste water water as "black" water.
The main negative is cold temperature non-performance, IMO. A self contained unit like the Sun-Mar works well in a warm indoor environment. If winter temperatures are low and the cabin left unheated between the occasional use through the winter that can be worked around. In late fall make sure the drum is as empty as you can make it. For us that means having to remove drum contents before the composting is completed. I've been disposing of that material by burning it off in slash piles. An alternative would be to transfer the material to a pit toilet or external composting drum as those with 5 gallon pail systems will use. The sporadic use over the winter will be of low enough volume that the drum in the toilet will simply store it until it's warmer.
Dry flush for me as that was one of the advantages that attracted us. No water use is even better than low water use for us. YMMV. Water can exacerbate the freeze problems as will any bends in the waste pipe used in systems with remote composting drums.
When everything is looked at I would actually like to have a small septic tank using the infiltrators, couple with a good sized underground cistern and rainwater collection system. In our case that would probably still be less expensive than a 600 foot deep drilled well. :-\ :-\
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yankeesouth
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2012 13:19
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Don,
Thanks for "both" replies!
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beachman
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2012 20:00
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Weighing in on the subject. I researched this problem for a couple of years and I did purchase a Centrex 2000 low water flush system. The manufacturer was quite up front with the cold weather problem and I wanted this system mainly for the Spring to fall seasons - with occasional winter use - about the same # of users. I will be completing the install this summer so I have no actual experience. My neighbor has an indoor composter but he says it gives off odours. We are in eastern Canada - NB so temps would be comparable to NH. They state that in the winter it is a holding tank and due to the construction, no need to empty before freezing sets in - just do not try to turn the mechanism. I'll keep the outhouse available for the winter - and a thunder mug for nite use.
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bugs
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2012 11:58 - Edited by: bugs
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Hi Bostonman
You might look at this link.
http://www.compostingtoilet.com/
and this one
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/html/95231202/95231202.html#FORSER
You have to scroll down a bit on the second one to see examples. We backpacked into the Yoho campground that used the phoenix digester set up shown in figure 15 and 16. I think it was servicing the ablutions of 10 to 20 or so people at the camp site fairly continuously.
We went the low tech composting outhouse route similar to this link:
http://www.saskwastereduction.ca/resources/Composting/comp-toilet.html
For our system when the pail is full it is dumped into plastic garbage bins with a layer of leaf mulch for composting. In about 1.5 years it goes into a regular compost bin for another year and then gets spread about. So far the system seems to be working quite well for our needs.
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skootamataschmidty
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2012 11:49
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My cabin has an envirolet 12 volt composting toilet. I have never really been happy with it as far as performance. Some of the issues I have had are as follows:
1. The raker bar is essentially ineffective. I have maintained raking almost on a daily basis when I am up there and once you get any build up of waste it becomes very difficult to rake. I have resorted to keeping a metal bar by the container and I use that to break up the waste.
2. Odour. Although they advertise as odour free, I always have an odour problem. I have reviewed the website many times for troubleshooting ideas and have tried everything. No matter what there is always an odour problem. My toilet is installed inside so this is not something that is pleasant. The problem is of course magnified when more people join me at the cottage. We make it a point for the men to go outside for pee and my wife and daughter use a porta potty to keep the urine down in the envirolet, however the smell is still an issue. My toilet is vented according to instructions and I maintain peat moss etc.
3. Emptying is not as pleasant as advertised as well. I now make sure that when I empty it, it is when I first arrive at the cottage after it has not been used for some time. When it is dry like this it is a lot easier. If you try and empty it after waiting only a day or two of use, then it is not pleasant at all.
I plan on removing the toilet this year and building an outhouse for it so it is outside.
As far as winter use goes, we do use it during the winter for occasional use without problems. We are located in north eastern Ontario and it gets well below freezing.
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mollym
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2012 14:18
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We built our own composting toilet according to the instructions in The Human Manure Handbook. All you need is a 5 gallon bucket, some scrap lumber, a toilet seat and a bale of peatmoss for cover. We made our composter out of a couple of t-posts and a length of wire fence zip tied together. The book is still in print and is funny and fasinating. You can make your toilet as fancy or rustic as you like! Give it some personality! This system is perfect in it's simplicity and our guests use it with out reservation.
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Rifraf
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2012 16:15
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i've wondered about operation costs for these sunmar units.. do you have to buy expensive bio chemicals to put into them each month/week ect ?
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bostonman98
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2012 17:15
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Thanks for all the helpful info everyone! I wish I could just use a fancy 5 gallon system but don't think that would fly with the man.
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2012 19:58 - Edited by: PA_Bound
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There are times when I wish it would fly at the man... 
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2012 09:29
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Don't give up,show him my setup.Work's fine.It's a custom built wooden cabinet that houses the ASB plastic containment vessel within.Let him pick out the seat of his choice at the home/hardware store.Everytime you go you add a 2 inch layer of pine shavings or peet moss to it.You dont see it,you dont smell it,you just know it's there somewhere.Once a week or so you take it outback,close your eyes and dump it into a compost bin.throw a flake of old hay over the top of it and walk away.Now open your eyes and your done!
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larryh
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2012 12:06
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I agree, why spend all that money for touchy systems that don't always work as advertised. This Sawdust Potty is ideal and from what I read in the Humanure Book they are not illegal since they do not contribute to ground water problems. My compost pile is about a year old and beginning to "work" by heating up. Even so if it just sits there for a year or two it will decompose fine to spread on lawns or fields or flower beds. The only time you would be concerned about higher compost temperatures is if your planing to use it in the veggie patch. Even that is safe if done correctly but care must be observed if you go down that path.
Larry
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brokeneck
Member
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# Posted: 17 Apr 2012 00:02
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We had one in original big cabin -- becuase we wer too close to the creek. It was a SunMar not sure what model since the cabinwas not heated year round we built an enclosure around the composting unit -- on this odel this was piped to an rv type toilet -- we simply ran a small electric heater and kept nit composting year round. upkeep was simple and the compost came out odor gree looking like the peat moss you add occasionally -- and it is great fertilizer -- if you can keep it heated I think it is the way to go --
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drmargy
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# Posted: 17 Apr 2012 02:38 - Edited by: drmargy
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We have a small cabin and only two of us. Guests are rare. We just built a bathroom addition and installed a self contained Sunmar Excel NE (non-electric) since we are off the grid. A solar panel supplies the energy needed for a small fan in the exhaust pipe. We have had it in operation since September. So far, there has not been an odour problem. We are at the cabin most of the time and the amount of supplies needed is minimal. Our temperatures on occasion reach freezing in the winter, but because the unit is inside the cabin, the temperature is moderated.
You can find more information about our system here.
Margy
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saggys
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2012 20:52
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I am thinking of going with a Nature's Head. I am suprised at all the negative comments on this subject. Our cabin is off grid with solar and no water and I sure do not want to try to heat a toilet while I am not there. We still have a outhouse if needed but really wanted a composting toilet.
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Purplerules
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2013 00:29
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We went the humanure system and it works great.
We copied one someone made over in the gallery at Jenkins site.
But changed it a bit by painting the base with copper paint to match with the sink that will be in the bathroom. Although it is hard to tell in the picture. The sawdust and scoop are stored in the tank which we purchase at on of the big box stores for $26. I just did not like the idea of the container of sawdust sitting next to the toliet.
We were hesitant to go with the sun mar or natures head due to all of the complaints.
Here is a pic of ours:
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davey25
Member
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2013 15:58
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I have the sunmar Non electric. no 12v fan or anything..its worked well for 10 years but last year I was having leakage comming out onto the floor and thought it was the drain at the back. After the disgusting job of cleaning everything and liquid on the floor and trying to find this leak..Ive come to the conclusion the body itself must be cracked..so Im looking forward to pulling it out and doing some sort of epoxy repair. Other than that not smells not expensive to run and its been great.
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ClimberKev
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2013 18:34
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Eight years ago our outhouse was condemned and I upgraded to a compact composting toilet. Our cabin is mostly weekend use and I use solar power. I re-wired the toilet with a separate plug for the fan and heating element and also added a turbine vent fan to the top of the pvc exhaust pipe. We run the fan when we are there and occationally the heating element. We use 100% sawdust and things seem to dry-out pretty quick. We are in Wisconsin do I have to empty the unit in November before things freeze up. What we remove from the CT we place in a compost tumbler and mix with everything else.
We do encourage our (male) guests to use the outdoors whenever possible. I also had to come up with a clever scheme to keep the wrens out of the turbine.
It works pretty well for our set up.
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2013 11:51
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Rayyy,
I really like the woodwork on your composter. I may have to imitate it.
Nice thing about a composter- No splash! My porta potty gets some scary-looking swimmies (have to add salt water to tame 'em).
As mentioned eariler, its true that decomposition slows or stops with the cold, but we just empty our composter and refill. No need to wait for decomposition, it can occur outside the "pot".
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Fireboat52
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 07:54
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I have enjoyed reading this thread, albiet a little late. I have numerous suggestions regarding using a composting toilet for a cabin. I am very interested in permaculture and "prepping" and have developed a system that works for managing all your organic waste; garden, animal and especially your feces and urine. It is called the BoonJon system which is a shortening of the name Boondocks Johnny, which is a composting toilet that I designed and build.
In a nut shell, you use a urine diverting toilet (the C-Head or BoonJon) and you utilize the urine as fertilizer and you compost the solid waste using black soldier flies in the summer and dehydration in the winter. It is a very easy system to build and works extremely well. It was designed originally for living aboard a boat which my wife and I did for five years. Now I have adapted it for living OTG. If you have questions, I would be glad to answer them and you can see what I have done at my website. I think Joe Jenkins is the leader in this field but my design is the next generation especially for people that are living on a small plot of land. I would enjoy discussing this topic.
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Fireboat52
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 08:10
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If anybody is interested in looking at the system, you can see it at this page of my site; http://www.c-head.com/BoonJon_system.html
It is just a brief overview but it works in cold weather too. You seperate the solid waste and put it in a dehydrator until the spring when you add it to the composting tower and let it reconstitute. The black soldier flies will do all the rest of the work. It is amazing how it all works together.
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scout100
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 09:11 - Edited by: scout100
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Huge bonfires go hand and hand with are camping experience while at camp. We use the handicap / elderly toilet seat stand with a 5 gallon bucket underneath. We use this in the corner of our cabin ( just 2 of us ) and so long as we lid it - it never smells. We don't use any chemicals either. So when that bonfire is up and up and burning hot - I will take the 5 gallon pail and drain it down into this channell and off to the side of the fire. It wont exstinguish the fire.. Also, when I prepare my fire, I prepare the logs in such a way that I have an opening and a tower type of log set-up burning.. This is where, I dump the dumps. It steams for awhile and you just make sure the wind is blowing away from your camp. Within 10 minutes, most of the moisture is evaporated off and the fire is working its way into it and incinerating. A good size hot hot fire with a good bed of coals is essential. I think this is more sanitary than any underground vessel or point of termination. So, long as nobody has any communicable diseases and none of us do this works for us. No digging either!
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 15:13
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rayyy that is some nice woodwork.
scout100. that's a good idea. will be thinkin' on that one.
i have a envirolet that I got from a guy who got it from a guy ... my experience is the same as skootamataschmidty.
what I like is that it's CSA approved. So. Insurance.
Winter was fun when I had to chip away at the "tower" after it filled up to the toilet trap.
And, I have to say, emptying it was not fun. but surprisingly. no smell. just very wet sludge. I'll be installing a solar powered fan for next summer.
and the toilet I build for the "bedroom" I'm building next summer will be a bucket ... and hopefully woodwork almost as nice as rayyys.
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Fireboat52
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2013 16:53
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Rayyy, I like your design too. You recognize that foot placement is important and you rounded the front. I am not being patronizing. Almost every composting toilet is square in the front which means that you have to sit with your feet forward which is unnatural. There are so many over complicated composting toilet designs that the are doomed from the onset and give the entire industry a bad name. Composting your waste is actually very simple. The only complication if you want to call it that is that you need to collect it inside where it is convenient and comfortable and then take it outside to compost it. Regularly, that is at least once a week.
To make that as easy and pleasant as possible the waste needs to be divided so that the urine can be poured out somewhere useful and the solid waste can be composted. Otherwise you are just pouring out stinky slop. If you keep the two seperated, then the smell is virtually non-existant with the feces as long as it is covered with some kind of medium; peat moss, sawdust or coir. And the urine can be treated easily enough with a small amount of holding tank deodorizer. I prefer peatmoss as a medium for covering the solid waste. You can easily dump the solid waste into a solar dehydrator made from a black plastic garbage can for the winter and then transfer it into the compost pile in the spring. It will look and smell like dirt clods if you use a C-Head. Or you can simply pour it into a 5 gallon bucket, treat it with chlorine bleach, seal it up and throw it in the trash. If that idea seems strange to you, take comfort in the fact that boat curisers are doing just that all over the USA and Canada with the Airhead, C-Head and Nature's head. If you cabin is located far enough into the woods and you don't have a problem with it, you can simply walk back into the brush and dump it out and the insects will make good use of it as nature intended. Ask a bear or a deer or . . .
The thing that I don't like about the larger self contained units is that they are a pain to empty, they attract insects and you feel like you are crapping in a washing machine. Composting is very simple and takes minimal work if you divide the waste at the onset and then transport it outside occasionally. No water, no electricity, good ergonomics, low cost, easy installation, etc. Just some thoughts. Hope it is helpful.
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