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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 02:45am
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Hey guys,
Trying to get my head around this issue:
I have a 300 gallon tank. Right now, the cabin is not built, but i need a shower for the crew while we are building it. I plan to make an enclosure, but I need to figure a way to build an outdoor shower that will not waste water (i.e. will have some sort of push-button on/off shower head so it does not 'free-flow', that uses parts I can then re-use on the new cabin.
I hate to just buy an outdoor shower setup at Cabelas that I will not be using in the new cabin a week later.
I have it in my head what I need, i think, but I have a few aspects that are bugging me:
1 - I am not looking at a submersible, I think, because it is not going inside the water tank, but wil draw from a hose that goes into it, right?
2 - I want the pump to have some sort of pressure valve that turns it on and off when the pressure drops below a certain point.
Again, just wish I could see a diagram of some sort of cabin setup where the water tank was at one end, the pumps and possibly a pressure tank were next to it, power source etc, and then the lines ran to the cabin and such. I could re-work it to suit my needs if I had a starting point.
Just never done any sort of plumbing before.. heh
Russ
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 06:51am
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A couple of one-gallon milk jugs work just fine, cost nothing, and help conserve water.
Tom
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 07:16am
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Heh.. ok, building a shower. I can pour water on myself fine :p
But thanks! ;)
Russ
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justincasei812
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 08:05am
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What about a five gallon bucket that hangs or put on an elevated stand of sorts. You could put in a shower head that has a pull cord (similar to what they used on M*A*S*H) this would conserve water with a little bit of pressure.
Just a thought......
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 08:20am
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That actually may be the least expensive way and the most fun way to go. I was actually trying to build a "mini" water system as a test for when I build the full-fledged one for the cabin.. heh
Thanks!
Russ
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 08:27am
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Have you considered a 12v water pump, like in an RV? That has pressure sensor/cut-off just like what you are looking for, no pressure tank, and could be used in the cabin when you build it.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 08:38am
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That was where I was looking today. I have not had time to go to a RV place, and I have an old old RV out at the ranch that I am having hauled off after the cabin is built. I thought about looking at that this weekend and seeing if the shower in it is still usable. It looks clean and such and is in great shape, but I have zero idea what leaks or what electrical stuff is rotted and such.
I'll know more tomorrow ;)
Russ
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 08:59am
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Oh, I found some good RV part prices and such. That is the way to go I think. I am going to see if the trailer out there has anything workable in it. If it does, I will use that till it dies and then just replace the pump when it goes out.
Thanks!
Russ
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 09:07am
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flojet is the brand name pump to look for ,49 $ this week at TSC .
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 09:22am - Edited by: razmichael
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For a shelter we just use a Brookstreet privacy tent/shelter (has two "rooms") on a couple of pallets. The system I put together includes a Eccotemp L5 on demand propane heater, a combined faucet/shower with a micro switch and a 12 volt pump. The diagram here is a very simplified view as the real system has additional faucets, valves and drain points etc (and the water source is provided through a filtering system). I used PEX throughout. Although the pump has a built in pressure switch I did not want to have the system under pressure when not in use so I used the micro-switch in the faucet. Open the the hot and/or cold tap and the switch powers up the pump. If the hot tap is open then the water flows through the eccotemp and it fires up to provide hot water. The design will work without the microswitch (open the tap and the pressure drop will cause the pump to kick in) but, as stated, I bypassed this. I have this connected to both the shower and a sink. The pump has so far had no problem providing enough pressure to the eccotemp to fire it up even when the sink and shower are being used, although this is "against the house rules".
Simple Water System Diagram
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 09:37am
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The thing I see missing in the diagram is an accumulator tank to even out the pressure. Without the tank, the pump runs everytime the faucet is open. Accumulator tanks also help prevent changes in shower temps when the pump kicks on and off.
Tom
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 09:58am
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Easy to add a tank and not use the micro switch in the faucet but it is really not required assuming we are really talking about a simple setup for a cabin (or the OP looking at a temp solution that can be upgraded). This is the same type of system generally used in boats and many campers. Open the faucet and the pump comes on, close the faucet and it goes off. There is no pump on/off while in the shower and the flow is very steady. (Probably not clear in my last post - I did not bypass the built in pressure switch in the pump as it acts as a fail safe if one of the kids opens a faucet a tiny bit and the pump comes on but builds up pressure). Given the size of the pump, I suspect (don't know for sure) that it would still be coming on fairly quickly when using a pressure tank and might even cause more of change in water flow. Naturally a bigger pump and larger tank would reduce this. I went this way as it is one less thing that can go wrong and I would rather not have a pressurized system that might leak if I forget to turn off the power when leaving. Also, my water source is filtered from the lake (hand carried to a initial storage tank and then filtered into the main storage). Overall our water use is limited and the aim is to keep it simple. With full disclosure - I have not built our cabin yet - we use a Pop Up Trailer as our interim cabin on site on our property. I have built the system to easily migrate over and it could always be upgraded to a pressure tank if needed.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 09:58am
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Martian, you are talking about those blue -pre-pressurized tanks I see a lot of?
thank you very much for the diagram!
Russ
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bobrok
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 11:48am - Edited by: bobrok
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We use one of those 12v demand RV pumps without an accumulator tank. It is on a dedicated deep cycle marine battery 625 amps @ 32°. Water tank size is comparable to yours. The battery lasts FOREVER on a charge for us. There is very little pressure fluctuation while running the shower, to the point that I'd call it a non-issue.
I think I recharged my battery twice last summer.
Installed a push type shutoff at the shower head. Once i get the water temperature regulated I turn on/off at the shower head.
Then you can reinstall the setup as a permanent shower once you finish the build.
I bought a $100 plastic 32" square x 6' tall on a fiberglass base. Used it outdoors on a pallet for drainage while building the bathroom. Cleaned it up and installed it permanently inside when bathroom was completed. I am quite pleasantly surprised at how durable it is for only having spent $100
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razmichael
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 12:38pm
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A couple more slightly more detailed diagrams I used during the planning as I put mine together. The final product is slightly different but not much. The orange boxes around segments show the modules which can be taken out, drained and stored easily (especially for winter storage) or when leaving the site for long periods. For example, pump and associated filter and connectors are mounted on a board in a small "box". This system currently handle very nicely both the kitchen and the shower for the amount of use we need. All hoses are PEX which is very nice to work with once you get a good crimper. Done side to PEX is, depending on the type, does not handle sunlight/UV well so plan location accordingly for any exposed plumbing.
Cabin Water 2
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Cabin water 3
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 01:09pm
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Quoting: jrbarnard Martian, you are talking about those blue -pre-pressurized tanks I see a lot of?
That's them. While some may not see the need, we always put them in when plumbing boat systems. They come in variety of sizes depending on the size of the system.
Tom
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 08:35pm
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I've used Shurflo pumps for decades in RV's and now in the cabin. I use their 2088 pump without any accumulator tank. That is Shurflo's recommendation. They can also be had in 24 VDC and 115VAC as well as the usual 12 VDC.
No issues at all with showering; low flow head.
Check that the temperature rise on that tankless heater is sufficient for the temperature of the cold inlet water and the desired flow rate.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2012 10:00pm - Edited by: TomChum
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There are 'sun-showers' too, but typically they are a pain-in-the-butt to fill with warm water. Although they do work great if you happen to be showering in the hot sun. If you're working; usually by shower-time; a sun-shower has cooled off then you have to pour hot water into it.
Here's an idea for $25, if it's temporary showering that you need. This is pretty simple, and easy to pour water into.
"Hudson Mfg Super Sprayer Compression 3 Gallons"
This sprayer is 3 gallons. Heat the plastic "wand" in a blast of steam from your teapot and bend it back so you can spray yourself.
Fill it half full of cold water then pour a gallon of boiling water ontop. You can experiment a little to learn what ratio makes "95 degrees". 3 gallons is enough for two good showers.
Depending on who it is, and whether there are neighbors you might want to hang up a shower enclosure.
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Highup1123
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2019 04:44pm
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I have the same sort of questions , I'm looking for a diagram or pictures that show how all the elements of a 12 volt water system go together in what order . My water comes into my small house from my shallow well . I have a pitcher pump in my kitchen at the sink , I want to connect a 6.5 gallon pressure tank and a 12 volt pump and pressure switch , I have all that stuff . I bought a manifold to add other fixtures in the bathroom and I am using Pex piping .The water does not have to travel far , just on the other side of the wall to the toilet , laundry sink and bathtub . I am only using cold water for now . I would very much appreciate any help i am offered . Thank you .
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