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munkyfst
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2010 12:17am
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hbarker,
Outhouses in Colorado .....HAHAHAHA. Sorry, they don't play nice here when it comes to outhouses, years and years ago (when dinosaurs and miners roamed) they had a problem with waste pollution from outhouses and they were banned in almost the entire state to prevent disease, that and they just aren't "civilised" enough to make people think Colorado isn't a "cow" state like her sister to the north Wyoming. anywho, there are still a couple hidden around here and there, the biggest problem I've seen is water table pollution, you dig a well and get sewage water seeping into your well water, sure you can filter it but that realization is still nagging you in the back of your mind, ya know.
Think about it, you build your cabin at 7000ft, your outhouse at 6975ft, your water table is 6900ft...hmmmm...yup, poop water. And don't believe the "ground will filter it out" story. Ive had my water tested and guess what...yup poop water. So no more outhouse use, besides I got tired of carrying a flashlight, 2x4 and a shotgun to the shitter at night. Flashlight to see your way, 2x4 to bang on the o'house and drive off the critters, and the shotgun for the critters that want you to come in for dinner. lol
I used a port-a-potty from wally world till i finished my indoor privy, amazing how enthusiastic the girlfriend was at helping to build it, it was a work of art. I built it like an RV toilet/shower and ran the plumbing under the cabin to a holding tank downslope from the cabin, gravity is an awsome friend. I got the tank from http://www.tank-depot.com/ , helpful people and the one I got was a round holding tank, I had to jump through the usual hoops to get it approved, but "just me" living here with the dogs helped a lot, get it pumped out when its full. Pretty cheap. Went and picked it up myself on the way to get some cattle.
"Always combine errands when you live in the mountains."
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saltbranch
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2010 11:57pm
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At our place which is used on weekends and 1 weeks vacation, once a year by a family of 4. I use a basic chair for the business with a small hole less than a 1' deep to hold the deposits, a bucket to catch the paper, which is burned as needed. Usually I can get 3-4 weekends out of a hole, the bugs usually breakdown the fisces between visits pretty well. I find that winter deposits are quick, to the point and less frequent over the summer deposits....:)
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Gary O
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2010 08:30am
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When we finally got serious in building our cabin, I build a red neck port-o-potty (5 gal bucket, toilet seat, bungy) not the best design.
excerpt from my journal:
......hours later, after what might have been several minutes of sleeping, I got up and built a fire.
Nature called...I remembered the little woman telling me of her experience with our 'port-o-potty'...I eyed it...having solemnly sworn to keep my sphincter clinched until we got back home, I felt my resolve giving in to dire urgency. In the construction of this essential camp tool, I hadn't figured into the specs the 'lean when applying tissue' principle. All went well until it was time to do the paper work. I couldn't lean and remain on the device at the same time. Have you ever (in your mature adult life) tried to stand and apply tissue to your south side? It's as though I'd grown tiny alligator arms. After much flailing and gnashing of teeth, the mission was accomplished. I reassembled Mr Potty, and ventured back to camp, feeling quite relieved in many ways.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 19 Oct 2010 02:08pm
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We purchased a Storburn incinerator toilet that uses Propane. The toilet will be vented in an enclosed building. Our small cabin is built on pretty much solid rock, no water, no electric. This seemed like the best option we could find. Not worried about odor downwind since it is in its' own space.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2011 01:27am - Edited by: TomChum
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I was lucky to have a resident Grandpa who built this of cedar. Its 32X36" and the wall studs are the 1 1/2 direction so inside dims are 29x33" If I did it again, about 4" bigger would be perfect. Dug a hole 4 feet deep. It's on dense soil, at least 300 feet from a very small stream, hoping it won't affect the stream. We only hit it a few weeks out of the year anyway.
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larryh
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2011 04:53pm
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Timely subject as I built my Sawdust Toilet about a month ago now just in time for lots of cold weather. The outhouse has been pretty lonely since! It has been a surprise to me as well that its about as odor free as one could expect. Sure its a bit intimidating at first, but it doesn't take too long to get used to the routine. It usually goes five or six days before I empty it, maybe longer. So far I only have a large black cheap trash can with lid I drilled sets of holes in for air to put it in. I will probably need more before I can built a compost holding site in warmer weather.. The only thing I see as a bit difficult is if you have someone come over, its rather hard to explain they can't just flush anymore and many people are not too fond of what becomes natural once your using it a bit..
Sawdust potty. Pine boards with Poly.
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WIupnorth
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2011 03:42pm
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I bought an Incinolet for our cabin since we have no plumbing. I've read good and bad reviews but thought I would give it a shot since we had limited options with below freezing temps. This has been a great purchase for us and has allowed use during the winter months without the inconvenience of having to dump a porta potty. The big question, does it smell bad since it incinerates? There is certainly a burning smell, but you would never know there was #2 in there with the catalyst. I plan to vent it through the roof next year which should help. Right now it's just through the garage window and still is fine. I would highly recommend the Incinolet. I bought mine used at a great price but I wouldn't hesitate at the current new prices either. My wife will even come up now. Sub zero temps..... this is the only way to go if you ask me.
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bugs
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2011 04:54pm
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WIupnorth
Are you on the grid? Was wondering if it would use too much power for an off grid application. I noticed in the description that it may need continuous power.
bugs
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p0rtia
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2011 06:40pm - Edited by: p0rtia
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I bought a separating toilet from Ecovita three years ago and have been extremely happy with it. Working from my usual state of complete ignorance, I was sold on the idea that it is the storage of the liquids and solids in the same bucket that cause the big odor issues (hence the sawdust) in simple bucket-to-compost humanure systems. I was also put off by the expense of stand alone composting toilets, and the limiting factor of being off-grid (and I already have batteries scattered around like mushrooms to keep my various other conveniences operating). So I bought the Separett toilet seat, dug the required soakaway, followed Ecovita's instructions for a box to house the seat and bucket, and then created what I call the Tiki Toilet, by sinking four 8 foot metal fence posts (those green things like angle iron) and wrapping 15 feet of bamboo storm fencing around the posts and a couple of trees. Very scenic. :-) I don't use sawdust, and I empty the bucket into my compost container about once a month. I have not yet vented the box, so you know the odors are not at all bad, but I will do so when I finalize the roof to the Tiki Toilet. BTW, I have the other 3 x 3 area of the Tiki Toilet dedicated to a propane shower system, which works like a charm. Needless to say, I'm a three-season cabin owner. Here's the link:
http://www.ecovita.net/privy.html
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WIupnorth
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2011 07:56am
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bugs.... sorry for the late reply, I don't get on this site much. Yes, I am on the grid. The incinolet wouldn't require constant power BUT it takes about an hour for a cycle. You may have to look into it a bit more or call incinolet.
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dropkick
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# Posted: 9 May 2011 02:51am
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The first thing I did after buying my land very many years ago was put a septic system in.
I then built an outhouse/shower combo that I was going to hook to it. However I never actually hooked it up to a water system. I always had plans to develop one of my springs further so I would have more water available for this, but I never did.
I built my first shed/cabin* too far away from the septic for hooking up to it. I dug a pit toilet. I developed one spring enough for drinking and cooking water and I would go down to the creek every three days and fill my 5 gal. solar shower bag for daily bathing.
The shower/toilet combo became a small shed and the only thing I ever used the septic for was as a dump for my trailer.
I still planned on someday developing the spring further and using my shower/toilet.
Then in 2000 a fire went through and took out my sheds (3), my trailer, which was stored there (plus three 4 wheel ATVs and a snow mobile) and my toilet/shower. Plus all the trees.
Since the fire I've built a 10'x10' plastic kit shed and a 8'x16' wood shed/cabin*. I have a RV toilet that I use in the shed now - I dump it into the septic. (Without the trees the people who built on the mountain side across the river have too a good view of me - so no more uncovered pit toilets or just hooking my shower bag up to a tree - still have snags I could hook to, but no privacy.)
* Cabins raise the tax rate, sheds don't - so I have a shed.
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cabin_pal
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2012 12:38am - Edited by: cabin_pal
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Quoting: larry has anyone had experience with incinerating toilets like the ecojohn?
I've not had direct experience with incinerating toilets but have done some research on them. In general, they can be quite expensive, yet may be one of few responsible solutions for handling human waste in environmentally sensitive situations: for example, island or lake-front cottages, or dwellings situated on very rocky soils.
In his book, How to Build Your Dream Cabin in the Woods, J. Wayne Fears highlights, on pp. 96-97, the incinerating unit he recommends: the Storburn Toilet. It uses propane instead of electricity, and so is ideally suited to off-grid situations. Its cost is in the $3000-neighborhood, which, while expensive, is more affordable than its closest major competitor, the EcoJohn, which retails for $4000-$5000, and does require an electrical power source. The following link gives basic info on these two incinerating toilets, plus a few others:
http://inspectapedia.com/septic/altincinerate.htm
It doesn't take much research to come to the sobering conclusion that, for the price of an incinerating toilet, one could build a deluxe, all-season outhouse befitting the derrière of the Queen of England. If the environmental parameters of your backwoods build site don't absolutely mandate incineration of waste, your money would likely be better spent on a conventional outhouse, or one of the proven indoor composting toilets now available.
Friends of mine, in two different situations, have had very good experiences with Sun-Mar Composting Toilets, which don't require electricity to operate. Here's a link to one popular model:
http://www.hayneedle.com/sale/sunmarexcelnonelectricwaterlesscompostingtoilet.cfm?sou rce=placpc&adtype=pla&kw=&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=SUR004-1&gclid=CKbrluawsK0CFWg0Qgodk zzalQ
I hope this information proves helpful, and I want to thank everyone contributing to this particular forum thread. Lots of incredibly useful information, which I wouldn't have otherwise discovered!
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gribley
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2012 01:19pm
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This is a great thread with a lot of good information! But I have a very basic question which I'm still not sure about, which is the legality of all these options.
I'm looking at properties in upstate NY for a tiny cabin, and it is not my intention ever to develop it with utilities, so I'd like to stick with the simplest setup I can get away with. For me that would mean an outhouse, or possibly a composting toilet outhouse. But I'm having trouble working through what's required. The question of building code is addressed pretty prominently on this site, but I can't find much on the question of sanitation code. In NYS, it appears that the building code/zoning is on the town level, but the sanitation codes are probably on the county level; but I'm not sure. (The state has a uniform building code as well.) I don't know whether to start emailing people in the town/county, since I don't want to tip my hand too early. On the other hand, I won't buy without knowing what the rules are -- I wouldn't want to fly under the radar for a couple of years to then get hit with a requirement to build a septic system (impossible on some of the properties I'm interested in).
Any thoughts, or advice on what the requirements are and how to approach complying with them?
thanks!
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dropkick
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2012 12:54am
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You could always put in a composting toilet (enclosed pit or tank toilet). These are legal everywhere.
These cost a bit more than some of the other options as you have to purchase a tank, plus the dirt work, but with just one family using it daily (as a toilet alone - no grey water) a normal sized tank will go for many years without ever having to be emptied.
With proper ventilation the smell is minimal and if there is you can put in a small amount of lime (lime not lye) in after use and there won't be any smell, even in the hottest weather.
- I've also heard of using sawdust, like you do with a bucket toilet, but I've never felt a need to try this with a composting toilet, usually I just live with any small odors (plus sawdust would add to the fill).
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gribley
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2012 10:00am
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dropkick, thanks, but "legal everywhere"? I don't think that's the case at all. In fact, it is my strong impression that many health departments have not yet come up to speed on composting toilets and are very suspicious. In addition, that solution doesn't address the problem of greywater, which is also of interest to boards of health. Are they willing to totally overlook that? Do you, or do others, have success in getting boards of health to accept composting toilets?
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dropkick
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2012 05:50pm
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You must be using a different definition of composting toilet than I do.
To me a composting toilet is a toilet with an enclosed waste tank (with no outlet other than for ventilation and for emptying) in which aerobic activity takes place to break down the waste.
Occasionally they need shoveling or pumping out.
I KNOW these are legal in all 50 states and as far as I know there are even few if any regulations on how close you are to open/drinking water.
Greywater is a different matter and not what I thought was being discussed here.
However a composting toilet tank can also be used for greywater. Though the problem with this is that the tank ceases to be a composting tank and instead becomes a holding tank, which needs to be periodically pumped out.
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dropkick
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2012 06:08pm
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ADDENDUM:
There will most likely be regulations on emptying the tank.
However if it is just used as intended for human waste and there isn't a tremendous number of you using the one tank it will seldom if ever need to be emptied.
*When I was a kid my family and I (4 people) used one with a 100 gallon tank daily for over 20 years without it ever in my memory needing to be emptied. -the waste decomposes quickly enough that the level rises very slowly- occasionally you might want to reach in with a long stick and level off the pile though.
If you do use it for greywater and make it into a holding tank there are services that will pump it out when needed for a fee.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 16 Aug 2012 05:52am
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We live on a high, mountain lake in central British Columbia and have applied the Separett's theory that not mixing pee and poo is the secret to no smells (our outhouse came with two separate "rooms", luckily). I don't always manage to pee in the right room but mostly. The pee room is still a bit smelly (the pit is very shallow) but the poo room (deeper pit) has no smell at all. Woot! I do throw in a handful of sawdust after each poo deposit but we've done that for a long time and there was still a considerable smell so it's the separation that's working.
Recently, we upgraded to a Separett (not cheap but much less expensive than a new septic system) which needs emptying every few weeks. Not a bad job, according to all reports although we haven't done it, yet. Apparently, the "job" is quite dry (remember, no pee in it) and is encased in a plastic bag which disintegrates during the 3 month composting process before it is ready for the flower garden. The contents of the separate pee bottle will be automatically mixed with water and go into an existing rock pit or mixed manually and tossed on the trees. Trees love pee! We can also compost for another year or two and then safely use the results anywhere, so we're told.
I also have upstairs "ensuite" - a 5 gallon bucket with plastic lid - so I don't have to make my way downstairs to the Separett or wake up the dogs to accompany me outside to the outhouse at 4 a.m. They hate that just about as much as I do.
We are not actually off grid but like to be prepared and the Separett can be powered by batteries and solar power but we'll use electricity until tshtf.
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Bravepants
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2012 03:29pm
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Hi There,
Great posts! I am wondering if the poster above in BC with the Separett toilet has an update to how well it is working. We currently have a composting toilet which we moved out into an outhouse building due to the smell when the generator is off (we are 110% off grid) plus the emptying process is just nasty. We are definitely using it to it's maximum capacity so I can't blame it completely on the composting toilet itself. We just need a different set up!
We also live in BC and with winter coming, the outhouse & composting toilet will not be a good fit. We would like to have something inside the house without having to get a septic installed. The incinerating toilets are interesting but expensive and I am not sure I like the idea of being dependent on propane to get rid of the waste products.
Any feedback on the Separett models would be appreciated!!
~Bravepants
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rayyy
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2012 04:54pm
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I have a hole in the wall and a hole in the floor,you just aim very carefully,,,Nawww,just kidden.My saw dust toilet.Works great.You take it out and dump it a couple times a week in the old compost bin.Mother Nature takes care of it from there on.
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boxley7
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2012 05:41pm - Edited by: boxley7
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Bravepants -
I started off with an outhouse at my tiny cabin in the woods. The trek got to be too burdensome. So the next thing was a sawdust potty that incorporated a toilet seat over a 5 gallon bucket. (I substituted pine sawdust compressed into pellets and used for horse bedding.) The good thing about this is that it could be inside. But for poo, I still hiked out to the outhouse.
It worked ok. Was cheap but there was just way too much handling of urine soaked sawdust. And lots of piles of urine soaked sawdust. And the outhouse was pretty nasty.
I did a bunch of research and discovered that many people are extremely unhappy with their expensive composting toilets. My cabin is small and I just did not want odors etc inside. I was horrified by some of the cleaning stories.
So I bought a Separett Toilet. It wasn't cheap but I guess they pay swedish workers better than Chinese workers.
It uses a fan to dessicate the poo and remove any odors - so I placed it in its own room just outside my front porch.
The good about it:
Much cheaper than a composting toilet
No odor at all
Less training required than for users of sawdust potties
Handling of waste is once every 4 months rather (rather than once a day in a sawdust potty.
Stays clean
Does not require a septic system
Seat feels like the sort of toilet most folks are familiar with.
The bad about it:
Much more expensive than a sawdust potty
I bought a 50 yard exhaust hose to divert aromas away from the front porch
The fan makes a hum that should not be in the same room as a person trying to sleep.
In summary: It works very well. I am pleased. Would recommend it.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 4 Oct 2012 01:43pm
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I have used the Separett for 1 year and can say it works very well. I am sure one could improvise a basic urine diverting system at very low cost, but the Separett has it all sorted out very nicely. However, you do need to store the solid material somewhere for 6 months or so, after it has been removed from the toilet, before placing it on plants. This is a hassle but an odor free toilet is worth it to me. I got mine here, and it was good service: URL
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Eco waste fan
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2013 08:21am
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Great posts! We have an ecojohn and I am wondering if anyone can share some tips. We Had read good things, however the auger that transfers the solid waste to the burn chamber gets mucked up with the waste and doesn't transfer it to the fire chamber. The paper inserts they recommend are expensive and frequently serve to further tangle everything in the auger. We are reduced to using a stick to help push the waste to the chamber and scrape off the auger. Needless to say its disgusting. Anyone out there have any tips to solutions? Also the unit was delivered with flaws and since it was a floor model of a distributor, the company refuses to help. Not only is the burn chamber door inaccessible from the outside of the toilet (it's buried in insulation) the chamber door is also impossible to loosen even with a blow torch. We have to take apart the unit to clean the ash chamber. Had very high hopes for this but only recommend for urine. Also try to inspect the unit before delivery or inspect for these issues prior to insulation.
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Rick004
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2013 06:16pm
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Has anyone that uses a compost toilet used ashes from the woodstove instead of shavings ? Is it a viable alternative ? I'm hoping to build in the spring and I am definately going with a composting toilet ! Thanks for the excellent post !!
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optimistic
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2013 10:21pm
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Vince... Why are you building a different toilet?
Is your central chamber one with the low flush not working???
I was planning my toilet plan based on yours.. 
I hope this is just an experiment or attempt at improving.
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Purplerules
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2013 10:38pm
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We went with the sawdust potty. First time to use, this weekend and it worked great! Got this idea from someone about using a regular toliet tank for the sawdust.
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mjmmessina
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2013 08:58am
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I also have the natures head composting toilet. Great product! Great Company! and No Smell!
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reddly
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2013 09:14pm
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I'm very curious about a few things
1) is a septic field the only option in an off grid environment that doesn't require ANY handling of waste?
2) For those poster from BC (boxy and brave) How did you find getting an off grid system in with the authorities (inspectors) ?
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helena
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2013 08:50am - Edited by: helena
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Humanure Handbook is great. My husband has been using this system for years and we even built the humanure hacienda as directed in the book and we compost EVERYTHING in there! Lol great for the garden but, we find it takes 2 years for one box to compost down so, the garden goes without for one year. We should really build a third box on. However..
i built and use a "treebog". This is what me and my daughter use. one chamber and never needs emptied, no waste to deal with ever. It converts your waste into biomass. Essentially it is like a double chambered composting toilet but, with a few hundred willow planted around the chamber. The willow breaks down the waste. We also planted comfrey and birch behind the willow as these deal with the nitrogen and further breakdown the waste. As it happens I have a little business selling willow for people to grow and although I have a massive willow plantation besides this, this little patch of willow around the composting toilet, which is particularly vigourous as you can imagine, yields about 500-600 cuttings for selling and planting every year - which is about 200 bucks worth of product every year. so, while I don't get the benefit of the compost for the garden because it never needs emptied, it earns me a few bucks in the winter months!  this year is the first year we coppiced these willow right down to a few inches above ground level, so, not only did I sell the cuttings but we actually got logs for the woodpile to season over the coming summer.
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Popeye
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2013 09:46am
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A regular flush toilet with a drain field. I drove a sandpoint adjacenet to the tank to fill it.
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