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Gunpowder
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2011 01:44am
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We have a 1834 cabin I restored at the nonprofit park I run. It has a second floor and is about 18 x 18. I assume you multiply by 2 to include the second floor. (648 sq ft.).
Assuming I am correct and factoring in the openness of the cabin design, I was looking at a woodbox stove for around 1,200 sq ft.
that would be:
vogelzang BX42E, US Stove 2421. Both run under $300. they both have smaller models but I assume they would have issues heating the leaky cabin and a larger stove could have a smaller fire burning.
A Jotul Black Bear is just too much money for a period accurate stove. Same for a Morso 2B. I priced a Vermont castings Aspen @ $831 but it is only rated for 600 sq ft.
The cabin is for programing and my private overnight enjoyment. Maybe my sons BSA troop's occasional overnight campout so I hate to put alot of money into a stove for looks. But I do want it to heat properly yet not roast us out.
Comments?
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Martian
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2011 07:11am - Edited by: Martian
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A large stove with a small fire promotes the buildup of creosote in the flue faster than a small stove operating at higher temps. It doesn't burn as efficiently.
Cheap stoves may not l seal as well as more expensive models; thus you don't have as much control over the fire. I've read reports of cheap stove's castings cracking which have lead to cabin fires. You may find that buying a cheap stove is "penny wise; pound foolish" in the long run. When it comes to wood stoves, you definitely get what you pay for.
Considering the small footprint of your structure, I would suggest looking at the Morso convection heat stoves which greatly reduces the clearance requirements for safe operation.
Considering that you are putting this stove in an irreplaceable structure, used by the public, going cheap may not be in your best interest or the interest of your guest.
Tom
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Mtnviewer
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2011 08:50am - Edited by: Mtnviewer
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I found & bought a used stove & the pipe to go with it. There are very often ads on Craigslist & locally. These can be great stoves or stoves with problems or cracks even. So knowing what you are lookng for is pretty helpful.
I have a Blaze King in my house / large cabin & love it but it is expensive BUT I've also seen them used for low prices.
With no BK's for a couple of months in the ads, I ended up having to buy a used Drolet for the log cabin as guests were coming for Christmas. It's rating should have had no problem heating the 240 sq ft of space, & it did okay after the logs heated up.
BUT here are the differences & things to watch for:
Drolet has a small firebox. It is also at door level so logs & or embers can & have fallen out.
Blaze King has a VERY deep firebox & 6" below the door so logs cannot roll out.
Drolet required filing every few hours & despite being an EPA stove, it's secondary burn was not very clean or hot so it still ran out of fuel quickly. The draft, damper, temp control (different stoves call them different things) is not very senstivive & so hard to pin down. In the small cabin, one has to get up at LEAST 1-2 times during the night to put more wood in the stove, more often if it's really cold, as the stove box is small & the burn control is not great & the log cabin is .... a log cabin, so the insulation is what it is, not the highest R rating despite 6-8" logs.
Blaze King has VERY good EPA rating, & clean hot secondary burn & VERY LONG burn times. It heats my house & other than -30 C, & even then, I NEVER have to get up in the middle of the night to put more wood on. It easlly burns 8-12 hours per half to full load. I use far less wood than my non BK neighbours, many cords less, though my house is also better insulated but also larger. Temp control on the BK is very good.
So the cheaper Drolet saved money, had specs to heat the space, but is a real pain in the ass otherwise & to me it's potentially dangerous from creosote build up, over firing, or embers or logs rolling out due to the horrid & high firebox.
So, IME, don't cheap out. Get a large deep low firebox & stay away from a door level or higher firebox. Get a stove with VERY good secondary burn to burn the smoke for extra heat & less creosote. Get a stove where you don't have to get up in the middle of the night, period, as that gets old very fast for me. Get a stove that is SAFE to use & in good repair. Get a stove with a glass door so you can SEE what is going on & when you need to add wood plus the ambiance is better. A door that you can't see through requires you opening it too often to check on the fire & not only is that a real pain, it is dirty as it sometimes lets smoke into the cabin & cools the stove too. The less you need to open the door the better. Don't get too large a stove for your space. It's better to burn the stove hotter than smoldering, BUT get a stove with a pretty large & deep low fire box so that you don't have to refill it a lot.
I'd keep looking for used stoves & pipes if you have time. If you don't have time, then bite the bullet & get something like a Blaze King to fit your space. While it will be more expensive up front, it will be safer, a joy to use, & safe money & energy (yours & your wood) in the long run. Also, the BK has a catalytic heater for secondary burns. You will get LOTS of people who hate catalytic combusters. It's a topic akin to religion & politics & voodoo & full of myth & heresay, just like religion & politics ;-). The catlytic combuster on my BK stove is 6 years old & burns like day one. They don't need to be changed every year or two as some will have you believe. Their advantages to me far out weigh the disadvantages (if there are any disadvantages). But some folks also still insist on not wearing a seat belt ....... despite the advantages ....
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Mtnviewer
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2011 09:19am
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You probably also realize that the heat will rise no matter what type or size of stove that you have. It will either make the top floor too hot & the bottom floor cold, especially around the feet, or if there is no good air circulation for the hot air to get to your 2nd level, then the main floor upper will be hotter to the ceiling & the feet will still stay cold.
In my one level 15 x 16 ft log cabin in winter, the feet are nearly always colder than from the waist up, sometimes the temp difference is quite drastic from the floor to the ceiling.
So getting a stove for double the sq. feet isn't really the best way to look at it. You also need a way to move the air around if possible. It isn't always easy in cabins without ceiling fans or duct work.
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Gunpowder
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2011 02:19pm - Edited by: Gunpowder
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This is an 1800's period cabin so I need to stick to a retro period stove like the woodbox stove with a few cooking plates on top.
That leaves me with the Vogelzang Litl sweetie/Standard/Deluxe, US Stove 2421/1261, Jotul Black Bear Vermont Castings Aspen, or Morso 2B Standard Radiant.
Prerestoration cabin photos here: URL
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2011 02:27pm
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The VC Aspen is a good stove that offers a good burn control.
One of the issues with a log cabin is they take a long time to heat up from cold. Depending on the temperature the building has gone down to itcan take a whole weekend to warm the mass to where it's comfortable. Sometimes two stoves in different parts of the building is the better solution.
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Gunpowder
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2011 03:03pm - Edited by: Gunpowder
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One other note: This cabin had (and still does) a unique chimney. the chimney starts on the second floor mounted ontop of a cabinet that is on the first floor (see main floor south photo).
The stove pipe runs from the stove through the ceiling/second floor (that is 1" Tulip popular boards) turns and then enters the chimney.
This will help heat the second floor too!
Being a log cabin, The heating issue was my thinking of my I would want a bigger sq ft capacity stove.
Only built one chimney to match the original design so only 1 stove is possible.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2011 03:06pm
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We have a 22x26' cabin with a 3/4 upstairs- but it's a loft so it is open to the main floor in the section where the stove is located. We have a Vogelzang Durango wood stove and have been very pleased with its efficiency. It comes with a blower and we use that and a ceiling fan at the peak of the cabin to circulate the air. It is rated for up to 1500 sf- we have 572 sf on the main floor, plus the upstairs. So far, it doesn't seem oversized- especially since we installed the ceiling fan. But we are in an area with VERY cold temps (regularly -0° F.) One drawback is that the stove takes up quite a lot of room. It is pretty big...but we enjoy the space for heating water, etc.
Here is the link on the Vogelzang site:
http://www.vogelzang.com/browse.cfm/durango-epa-wood-stove/4,3.html
We got it for about half that price on eBay (new.)
Hope that helps.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2011 09:30pm
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We have a Vogelzang boxwood stove BX26E. It has the two burner cooktop. The cabin is 2 rooms 12 x 16 each and also a bathroom. We have 9 foot ceilings in the main room (flat roof) and the other has a lean to type roof sloped from 7 feet to 8 1/2 feet. I put the stove in the room with the sloped roof, in a corner with the lower ceiling height. The stove easily heats up the whole cabin without using tons of wood. We leave the doors open between rooms and use ceiling fans to circulate the warmth. The only drawback with this stove is that it does need to be reloaded sometime during the night. We have actually used it to cook on. My wife loves to cook Jiffy Pop popcorn on it LOL, but it is really pretty cool!
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scuppernong
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2011 09:13pm
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Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be curious as to hear suggestions for cabins <100sq ft.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2011 12:16pm - Edited by: TomChum
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>>>>Being a log cabin, The heating issue was my thinking of my I would want a bigger sq ft capacity stove.
====> SUPPLEMENTAL HEAT OPTION
I have a log cabin, 180SF. When the logs are all full-cold it can take a whole day to warm up. Today at 28 deg outside, no wind, I ran the woodstove (Vermont Castings Intrepid 1982, recommended for 1100SF) PLUS the www.MrHeater.com The cabin was 59F @7AM; was 70F by 9AM. Point being, you can use a smaller stove, burn smaller fires, and not roast people your loft. Use the portable propane heater for supplemental heat when necessary.
Catalytic heaters don't produce CO (deadly carbon monoxide) but indoor heaters do use up oxygen - the oxygen you like to breathe, and they exhaust water vapor into your cabin. Consequently I would only use it only as a periodic supplement to a "real" heater. Its also handy to even out the temp across the room or put heat right where you want it. If cold windows are fogging up; thats a good indicator that you have a lot of water in your cabin air. So far my windows don't have any fog.
For awhile I thought I wanted the larger model but currently I'm happy with this size. It's very portable, I can use it in my camper too. Compact size is good for small cabins, easy to carry in/out, easy to store. It has 2 settings, 4,000 & 9,000 BTU. It's made of plastic & steel, made to withstand rough use as I no understand. Last night my tailgate fell open and the heater fell out, Lil' Buddy got hisself run over by my (unladen) dirtbike trailer. :-( No problem - toasty warm this morning!
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Gunpowder
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2011 10:31pm
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My little buddy makes hunting in a blind tolerable on those cold mornings.
I bought a used 900 sq ft U.S. Stove 1261 logwood box stove.
Trying to figure out how to install it now in my unique application which is a whole new post lol
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AU2009
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2011 11:29pm - Edited by: AU2009
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Our cabin is about 450 sq ft. I bought this stove off craigslist for a good deal and then got a through the wall install kit at northern tool.
It heats the cabin pretty good. From cold, and cold here in TN has been about 30 F, it takes about 2 hours to get it to around 78 inside. One thing I don't like about this stove is that I can't really regulate how much air it gets, no vent. When I go to sleep I toss as much wood in there as I can and it will as 2-3 hours. Its not too bad since I go to bed around 11 and am waking up around 430 to hunt but still. The stove is rated for 1500 sq feet.
edit: tom, I'd like to get some info on your cabinets for the rv range. check the propane stove in off grid living.
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toofewweekends
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2011 02:04am
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Go big on a stove. It's easier to open a window and cool off than using a too-small stove to try to heat a place in a real winter.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2011 07:42pm
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we have a older volcano III stove, it is old from the 80s. wonderful stove. like it so well, bought another for our other house off craigslist, then payed to have it shipped 1000 miles. the older stoves were designed to heat and save wood. All new stoves are junk, the goverment tells manufactures how to build them. all of the design is only for emissions, not heat or saving wood. Just like cars. In 1981 honda had a car that got 51 mpg, but now with emissions honda only gets 37mpg. how is burning twice the fuel help the enviroment. Stick to the old simple designs.
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