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Tommaso
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 08:34pm
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First off I want to say hello to the community and that I love this site! I have been browsing for about a month now trying to learn all I can, so decided it was finally time to get involved. I want to purchase a nice piece of land up north in Canada, build a small cabin to begin with and eventually live off grid. I am in Hamilton Ontario and the land I want to purchase to be no farther than 4 hours from Toronto.
Anyways, my question tonight is about Solar Panels. I seen 2 boxes left on sale at 'Canadian Tire' with each box containing 2 - 15 watt panels. They are asking $129.00 for a total of 30 watts plus a 7 amp charger. The others not on sale are almost double the price so I think they are just clearing them out, as like I stated, there are only 2 boxes left (I hope they are still there!). They also come with a stand.
If you guys/gals think it is a good price I would like to purchase both boxes for a total of 60 watts. Unfortunately I'll be stuck with 1 extra 7 amp charger - I guess it could be good for backup or donation to someone in need?
One other question is, if I purchase the four panels will I be able to add more at a later date with a different manufacturers panel, and if so, do they have to be the same watt panels (15 watts)? I know I probably will need a larger charger.
Thanks in advance and I am eager to here if it's a good or not-so-good price. I would like to experiment with them, but just want to first make sure it's a good deal.
Chow, Tommaso
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 10:55pm
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Whether or not it's a good deal for you depends on what you really need or want in terms of how much battery capacity you need to fill your needs/wants. How much battery capacity, coupled with how much useful sun you have will determine how many PV modules of what size you will need to charge those batteries after a typical days use. Then allowances must be made for cloudy days... how many days do you want to be able to store power to use.
The place to begin is an honest assessment of the devices you want and the power they draw in a typical days projected use.
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Tommaso
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 12:58am
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I wanted to purchase them just for experimental purposes and really was just wondering if the price sounded decent to you for what they are?
Also, is it possible to add to them later on and if so, can you use different manufacturers panels together in an array?
I know it sounds silly to just purchase them for experimental toys, but this spring I am purchasing land and hopefully can find something with water on the property for 40,000 CN. Thats what I have now to spend, a little more by spring - but I want at least 8 acres and a really nice parcel for that price. I plan on building my own cabin - which I will probably be asking for tips from you and others if that is okay?
Since I am purchasing the land, I was hoping to experiment with solar technology, and then later when the cabin is built add more panels if possible, so the experimental PV's won't be a waste. I have planned on purchasing 300 to 400 watt panels at a later date when the cabin is complete, that is what I calculated for what I want to run, plus 30% extra. My needs are fairly minumal. I just want these to be compatable with future panels so that they can be useful in the future and not just wasted money.
I hope I didn't make this too confusing, I have a habbit of that. Thank you for helping and I hope you understand - its greatly appreciated.
Tommaso
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 01:32am
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Ok. That seems to me to be a good deal. The US and CDN $$ are very close to being equal right now. Here in the US a panel that is probably the same as that goes for $70 for one. The 7 amp controller is $30.
link to Northern Tool
So not too bad a deal for messing around.
I have two of those that I use to keep the RV batteries charged over winter or other times of no use. They worked fine for that. However, it's a little low powered, IMO, for serious battery charging, but if you only have a single battery you could use it to learn with.
As for adding together with more and bigger panels later, that may work and may not be a good idea. When increasing the size of the array many factors need to be considered. If you tried coupling those with a much larger panel you could have problems making them all work well together. Voltage and amperage outputs need to be matched or come close to for best performance.
They could always be used for keeping vehicle batteries up, floating a large system left idle over a period of months....
The amotphous type of panel, that those are, do tend to "fade" and lose some of their output over time. After four years my 15 watt panels never seem to put out more than 12 watts now. Still okay for keepingstored batteries up over the winter.
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Tommaso
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 02:29am
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Thank you very much, that answers my questions perfectly. I was planning on purchasing two box's which would be 4 - 15 watt panels for a total of 60 watts. Probably 3 batteries and the seven amp charger would be fine for a couple 15 watt compact flourecents and a small sink pump? The lights would be on for 3 hours a night and the sink pump used probably ten times a day for a total time of ten minutes. Do you think this sounds possible - just trying to get a picture of what 60 watt PV's with 2 deep cycle batteries are capable of. Thanks again!
PS: The PV panels I want to purchase are from a company called 'Blue Planet' ever heard of them and are they okay? Also, what is a amotphous type panel. I read something about them being crystaline something or other panels???
Thanks for the speedy answers - you must be a night owl like me lol!
Tommaso
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 06:24am
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That's about the right price,Tom.I bought the sunforce 4 panel kit for $250.through amazon.Haven't got them set up yet but getting closer every day.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 12:03pm
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Hi, I am also a lurker here for some time now, and somewhat of a newbie to solar arrays. But I just wanted to chime in and say that I also went the same way with something small to experiment with until I went and visited all the solar forums I could find to gather information. Most say that doing this is a classic mistake for solar newbies. They say always spend your money on something that you can use down the road. In your case as I read it, you will spend about $300 after sales tax, and have something that is really not expandable. This is the mistake they are talking about. For about the same money you can buy a 100 watt panel and a 20 amp charger, which you could add 2 or 3 more 100 watt panels to the same charger down the road. For example this ebay store in Texas sells a 100watt panel and 20A charger both for 300 free shipping http://stores.ebay.com/SOLAR-TEXAS?_trksid=p4340.l2563 ...but not to canada, but I am sure on canada ebay or somewhere else the in Cananda you could find the same deal.
In my opinion thats the way to go.
All the best to you
Kev
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exsailor
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 03:05pm
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You are spending $260.00 for 60 watts, and getting an extra 7 amp charger. That works out to $4.33 a watt. Use the price per watt as a measuring tool. Compared to them harbor Frieght system it is a better price. With prudent shopping you should be able to get to $3.00 a watt. Like it was preveiously said it depends what you need it for. For a light duty system it should keep you topped off. Good luck and keep us informed about what you decide.
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suburbancowboy
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 05:21pm
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I bought three of the Harbor Freight kits any where from 129 - 149. Price was great. Total of 135 watts. I have them connected to three deep cycle batteries for three years. I have only run out of juice once when I was running some 800 W halogen work lights for a couple of hours. Even then it could have been the inverter over heating. I say go for the small kit. It will help you define what your needs really are and give you experience. You can always use the little system as backup or for a shed. It is like building your shed before your cabin. To get experience.
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Tommaso
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2011 02:06am
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Thank you all for the response! I didn't purchase the system and now I think I made the correct choice as I do want to eventually go quite large with my system. I just figured it would be extra wattage and that I could connect all solar panels I managed to aquire before the cabin is built and then put them all together on one board to be used as one large panel. I now learned it doesn't work like that - thanks to the answers I have recieved.
One thing that still bothers me is what size watt panel should I go with if I want expandability in the near future and eventually say I want to go as high as 1000 watts total. An example: If I had a 100 watt panel made by X company, and a year or two later I purchase a 100 watt panel by Z company, can I use them together to create 200 watts even though they are by different manufacturers?
Tommaso
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2011 12:40pm
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Tommaso,
There have been a number of threads on the topic of solar power (for example URL . As MtnDon stated early in this thread - you need to do a good assessment of your needs and future needs before you can really start planning your system. If you just want to run a few lights that is fine but when you start to talk about 1000 watts of panels, this is a very different thing. What about batteries (type, number etc), wiring, AC vs DC etc etc. As also mentioned, building an evolving system takes even more planning. As an example, assume you start with two good true deep cycle batteries (6 volts) and then, in a couple of years decide you want to add more batteries, this is tricky because it is not a great idea to mix aged with new or different types of batteries (it can be done but you need to know the risk and downfalls). So do you pay up front for a larger battery bank and add panels as your needs increase?
You really need to decide on what you expect from the system. If you only plan on using it mostly weekends then you might go with larger batteries to handle the short period of loads and assume that you have more time to charge them up between visits. Will you have a generator to handle emergencies? What is your budget? 12v or 24v? How are you going to wire the place? Do you want an inverter and if so - how much power/type/features etc. How much can you spend on the batteries as they really become the key component of the system (getting cheap batteries is like buying an expensive home theatre but picking up the speakers at a garage sale down the street).
Have you taken a look at the 12V side of life website - it is a well used reference site - although a bit dated in technology still has lots of good advice. URL
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brandywine
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2011 08:45pm
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try sunelec.com for great prices on panels. I just ordered 10 laminate panels (no frame of junction box) from them for 0.58 a watt. The truck just came in. I have been waiting for months for them.
I think wholesale solar and Northern Arizona Wind and Sun have the best prices on the electronics. Sometimes altestore has good deals too.
We made the mistake of getting a inverter/charger that could only do 12v. Now that our system has grown, we are having to replace the most expensive electronics piece...
Make sure you start our at 24 or 48v for your battery bank...it just makes it so much easier as you grow.
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Tommaso
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2011 12:05am
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Brandywine, what are you going to do with your old panels, sell or find another use for them? Just curious.
I think I have read enough and with all the great responses here I know what to do - wait until the cottage is finished and then see what my power needs will be. It took a little while to sink in but I think this is the best idea without experimenting first with smaller panels. I am sure I will have enough work with building the cottage anyways.
Thank you all very much and I will be sure so stick around to learn more.
Tommaso
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2011 09:22am
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just a though Tom , you will want power at your sight to run 110 v power tools ,it might be a good idea to look for a 1500 watt inverter on sale , it could be installed in your vehicle and used anywhere untill you are ready to comit to a soler plan..
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2012 06:10pm
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r the blue planet solar panels url rated to pass the building code
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2012 08:59pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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I'm not familiar with Blue Planet brand; is that a Canadian Tire brand? Here in the US what is required to have panels and anything electrical pass inspections is for the devices to have UL or ETL approval, labels. In Europe that is CE. In Canada I think that requirement is CSA. There are panels out there that have none of those. Sometimes that is simply because the manufacturer / distributor has not bothered as those labels costs money. They prefer to sell to DIY who don't care. Not all panels without an approval label may be dangerous to use. But some are.
Case in point, a few years ago there was an extremely good deal on some panels here in the USA. Close inspection of the specs revealed that the panels did not meet the required high voltage figure needed for UL or ETL. (That is 600 volts BYW. May seem high but that is what it is...)
So read all the specs you can find, look for labels on the product if you can. UL and ETL are universally accepted in the USA; one or the other or both.
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