|
| Author |
Message |
hinterland
Member
|
# Posted: 24 Sep 2011 10:40am
Reply
Hello,
We live in North Central Alberta and have a log cabin, 400' and are looking for some input.
We have been using wood cook stove for heat (Amish Built), propane cook stove and yukon burner in the summer and an older Consul propane fridge.
We are upgrading!
Have just ordered a new 24" Premier Gas Range, and a Zodi X40 Outfitter hot water system.
We are in a dilema about the fridge.
Either buy a DC powered one and just a battery charger to charge the current AGM batteries with our Generator OR
Buy a Low Energy Efficient AC fridge, and buy:
solar panels, (how many and how many watts?)
charge controller,
inverter/charger (Pure Sine 2000 watt). (not sure the 2 batteries we have will be enough, so we could increase)
We have a Honda 6500 Gen Set and also have 2 AGM 200A Forklift batteries.
Up to 6 hours a day, we use the following:
Macbook Pro 85 watts
Router 15 watts
Internet 10 watts
External Monitor 40 watts
USB Hub 13 watts
Lamp 7 watts
Intermittent use of:
TV 85 watts (2 hrs a week)
Sound System 150 watts (2 hrs a week)
DVD/VHS 25 watts (2 hrs a week)
Blender 450 watts (10 mins a day)
Coffee Grinder 110 watts (2 mins a day)
Mixer 220 watts (15 mins a week)
Toaster 900 watts (10 mins a day) could purchase a lower energy one!
Lights 4 x 14 watt bulbs ( 3 hrs day)
TO ALL OF THIS, adding either a SUNDANZER DCR165 5.8 cu 12V 168 watts hrs/day
OR an AC Fridge rated at (300 - 354 kWh/yr)
Clear as mud????
|
|
larryh
Member
|
# Posted: 24 Sep 2011 11:22am
Reply
Are you unsatisfied with the propane refrigerator, it saves a lot of power to not run one off AC or DC. I recently saw a very nice looking canadian built refrigerator that a Mennonite fellow near by sells new. I liked the looks and it came in three sizes. Off hand the name escapes me but I could likely find it.
larry
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 24 Sep 2011 11:50am
Reply
Personally I dislike having to run a generator to charge batteries. PV module based systems work great when sized correctly. That is the key. Our cabin runs on 624 watts of modules and has 15120 watt hours of storage batteries; 24 VDC based system. I have a generator that is really only used to run an equalization charge or in case of some sort of emergency.
I have a Servel propane fridge. Some day I want to replace it with an energy efficient AC fridge so I can cut down on the propane use. Not in a real hurry though. That will necessiate increasing both the number of panels and increasing the battery bank size. The battery change will not happen until the present ones need replacing.
When looking at propane fridges one thing to compare is the burner size, in terms of how many BTU's per hour. Many times the same burner assembly is used for fridges of various sizes. This means that the unit with the larger box will not cool down as fast nor will its hot weather performance be equal to the smaller box. I have a friend who decided to run two Servels rather than go for a single larger box. Location /. climate may influence choices.
The Sundanzer use figures should likely be seen as what can be achieved in test lab conditions. A Sundanzer owner I have had conversations with uses considerably more power that the claims they make. I'm not sure I could get used to living with a chest type fridge though. But that is a personal thing.
|
|
hinterland
Member
|
# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 01:50pm
Reply
Hi , We have had trouble with the older propane fridge and it's now on the porch. Propane is getting expensive. We use the gen set, because we have it as our current power plant, slowly going to switch to solar. We are choosing between either an AC fridge or a DC fridge. Just wanted to know if anyone is running AC and how much battery storage you have and for how long your fridge runs on your current set up.
|
|
beachman
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Oct 2011 09:02pm
Reply
I have a Servel propane fridge at our old camp - must be around 50 yrs old and I have had it re-charged. It works great but you have to keep the chimney and the burner clean for best results and to avoid bad fumes. I bought a new Servel (now Dometic) from Bob's in Nevada (expensive - but all propane equipment is). I have not yet installed it but it posts a usage rate of about a lb or so per day. With 100lb tanks for te summer - I use about 1 1/2 all summer with the old place and I usually leave the fridge and stove pilots on from about mid June to the end of August and run a couple of propane lights as well.
|
|
hinterland
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Oct 2011 09:13pm
Reply
Hi there, thanks for the info. We usually get about 3 months out of our 100 lb bottle. With just the fridge.
We have completely taken apart burners, orifice and cleaned according to manufacturers direction, but it still smells pretty bad, so it is out on the porch. We have been told that Sundanzer has a 4 week waiting period to ship out their fridges, then it's an extra $300+ to ship to Alberta on top of any prices that you find online. Pretty pricey, but then again, so it propane. For now, we have not bit the bullet for a fridge and are still using the old propane on the porch. Our log cabin is year round.
|
|
analogmanca
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Jan 2012 01:03am - Edited by: analogmanca
Reply
I will take a stab at it.
Roughly 1.1 kwhrs/day for the first list,
Roughly, .5kwhs/day for the second,
Assumming you go for the .8kwh/day fridge(300kwh/y)
That gives you roughly a 2.5 KWH/day average demand.
I would suggest a 1kw array, In summer you will have a great surplus( dump it into water heating), but in Winter (I am at lat 51 you must be close) you will be lucky to get 2 hrs a day of good sunlight (Dec 1- to Jan 15 roughly).I would guess you will need to run the genny starting mid nov to mid Febuary a little to make up any short fall(or add wind).
A xantrex 1800 watt sign wave is pleanty( I think it surges to 3000 watts.
Your needs are so little I would Stick with 12 volt panels, and inverter.
If funds are tight you can use the large ( I think 1500 watt inverter) modified square wave sold at Canadian tire. I dont usually recomend mod sign, but that inverter is good. I know of a place going on 8 years or more running a home without problems. I have seen it go on sale for 250.00.(Put your money into panels)
|
|
drmargy
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Jan 2012 03:33pm - Edited by: drmargy
Reply
We just upgraded our kitchen and added a larger propane refrigerator. We had an old Servel 8 cu foot model. It still ran fine, but now that we live at the cabin almost full time we wanted something larger. We found a Unique brand home style propane refrigerator at our local Rona store. It comes in sizes from 3 to 18 cu feet. We got the 13 which has a nice size freezer with a separate door.
Unique's website
It is rated for approximately 1.4 lbs. LPG in 24 hr. period. We use 40 lb tanks and in winter when we use our refrigerator full time, propane lights and a propane range, a tank lasts approximately 28 days. In Canada, you have to either vent the refrigerator outdoors, or add a
CO alarming device that runs on a 9 volt battery. If gas is detected there is an automatic shut off feature. We opted for that rather than venting outdoors.
You can see more about our kitchen remodel at my blog by clicking here or on YouTube by clicking here.
Unique is in Oakville Ontario, so maybe they carry it locally for you to take a look. - Margy
|
|
|
livfree
Member
|
# Posted: 31 May 2012 11:17am - Edited by: livfree
Reply
I have similar questions so I'm bumping. We live in northern Alberta too.
Me and my boyfriend live in our 12'x16' cabin 5 days a week (its more like our house). We have no electricity or water. We have a honda generator for running tools. We have been in it for a little under a month. We don't currently cook food in it (we eat take out, so sick of it) but hopefully soon the kitchen will be set up!
So my question is, what do people suggest for a fridge? Do I get solar panels and run one that way, get a propane one, or use one on a battery? Also I'm thinking of just having an 'ice box' (cooler with 2L bottles of ice that I can freeze at work). What are some pros and cons?
I've done some research and found this thing about converting a chest freezer into a fridge, but don't really know how to do it or if it can run off a battery.
URL
Maybe I will start a topic about that..
Any info would really help!
|
|
pwh
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 11:27am
Reply
Hey livfree...
Look for a used RV propane fridge (make sure you vent it in your cabin) which you can hook up to an outside 20lb propane cylinder. While you're at it a propane stove top burner out of an RV can be mounted in a kitchen counter and looks great.
I have both of these in my cabin and they work great and use minimal propane.
If you are looking into bigger propane fridges, every province except Ontario requires a direct vent on the fridge. CO2 alarms are no longer acceptable outside of Ontario due to several recent deaths when these devices were disabled which resulted in the regulations changing in 2010. Direct vent is the safest!
|
|
livfree
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 11:52am
Reply
Thanks pwh!
How air tight does this vent have to be (maybe a silly question)? I was thinking of building a sort of box around the fridges back and then running a pipe or something up and out through the space in the rafters. Do I have to caulk around the seems and be that thorough with it?
|
|
silverwaterlady
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 01:56pm
Reply
In Canada you must use CSA approved propane appliances. It is illegal for a gas company to install non CSA approved appliances. If you install any other your homeowners policy will be invalid.
|
|
beachman
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 08:55pm
Reply
Here is a question. I am about to install our Dometic propane refrigerator. I am trying to install it with a vent kit that lets in the outside air and vents the exhaust outside. These new fridges are low to the floor and about impossible to reach the back once installed. The directions state that you should have access to the back - what, cut a hole in the house? Does any body have any ideas or similar experiences?
My thoughts were to have a flexible gas hose that would allow me to pull the fridge out and have some ease of hook up. BUT - the venting will be an issue as it will not allow the same ease of moving in and out. I might be able to keep the last kitchen cabinet loose under the countertop to be able to remove this to get at the back of the fridge????
|
|
livfree
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 10:57pm
Reply
I think a flexible hose with some extra slack would be fine, its not like you need to get back there very often.
Side note, beachman, is it a new or old dometic? Have you heard anything about the dometic recall on some models? If not, maybe look into it, I have a dometic to and its older. It was on the list.
|
|
PA_Bound
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2012 07:52am
Reply
I got a Norcold refridgerator out of an RV earlier this year, that I am planning to install in my cabin. I also got two vent covers, and am planning to cut holes in the cabin to allow for access to the connections and venting. Venting is important- it allows for the removal of CO and heat, but also increases cooling efficiency. I'm taking my venting one step further and installing two thermocouple operated AC fans (similar to those found in PC's, etc.) just inside the top vent, which will further increase airflow and efficiency when the fridge is operating. The whole unit will be mounted in a plywood box, which will be tightly mated to the siding (I'm actually going to alter the framing of the cabin wall to allow this).
|
|
beachman
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2012 09:46am
Reply
livfree - Thanks for the question about the Dometic - but it is a new one and I read about the recall and fortunately not my model. I agree with PA_Bound about the venting. It is important and aids the effeciency - especially in air tight cabins or with other competing sources of oxygen - water heaters, stoves, etc... I think for the venting where I do not have great access to the back of the unit, I will leave one bottom cupboard unattached so I can move this out from time to time to gain access to the back (albeit tight).
|
|
creeky
Member
|
# Posted: 19 Sep 2012 05:19pm
Reply
I have a propane fridge and am sick of hauling propane. Plus it's expensive. If you have a solar system in mind, plan on 500 watts of panels and 200 amp hrs at 12v in the battery box (maybe a bit more battery...) and use a full sized ladee dah fridge from big box name inserted here.
maytag has an 18.5 that uses 1.1 kw/day. am I drooling. sorry. but it has a deli drawer with a humidity thing.
|
|
IslandLiving
|
# Posted: 22 Sep 2012 12:35pm
Reply
Good morning Larry,
You mention "I recently saw a very nice looking canadian built refrigerator that a Mennonite fellow near by sells new" - would you be able to find his name and contact information., please.
Would greatly appreciate it,
Thank you
Erika
|
|
|
