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bhebby
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2011 03:57pm
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I was looking at the harbour freight solar system for under 200. I would like to use that to trickle charge a deep cycle battery or two and use an inverter off of it to run a series of LED xmas lights across the entire ceiling rafter to provide some light?Any idea if this will work? What size inverter? I would not use it for anything but these lights and maybe a radio.ANy help would be appreciated.thanks
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2011 05:39pm
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The harbor freight kit is not very good, but many are using it successfully. A big 12V deep-cycle (100AH) will run the load you described just fine for a few days, I use mine to run radio and lights and use 8-10 AH per day
For your inverter, the smallest one you can find with a cord will be enough. I was using a $25 175 watt model until someone gave me a more efficient 250 watt model. Don't get one with a fan, it just wastes energy
My LED lights work fine on my inverter but others have had issues. Hook it up in the driveway before you install it all in the cabin
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2011 05:53pm
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Just looked in the harbor freight flyer, they want $179 for their setup this month.
For $10 more you can get this 45 watt panel panel and a much better charge controller that will allow you to use up to 3 of those panels when you are ready for more power
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2011 11:12pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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For the adventurous it is possible to rewire christmas light strings and use them directly off of low voltage DC, 12 VDC, 24 VDC, whatever you have. No inverter needed. Just don't plug the string into 120 VAC! Google something like "rewire LED Christmas lights for low voltage" and assorted info will be found. Just remember some such free info may be better than others.
If it's on the internet it has to be true, correct and 100% safe, doesn't it?
But it does work. I got mine through some horse trading with guy who likes to tinker with all sorts of electronics stuff.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2011 10:02pm
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I have 2 of the harbor freight 45 watt kits hooked up to 2 walmart deep cycle batteries and also a walmart car battery that I had a warranty on. I have been using it for a couple months ( since June ) I have had no problems at all with it. I use it daily for 2 12 volt pumps, a small dc tv and fan, and it powers up my sattelite receiver and also a 32 inch flat screen tv. I have 3 inverters. 1500 watt, 750 watt, and a small 300 watt. I use the 750 watt for the every day stuff. I use the 1500 watt for bigger things. It will power a 10 inch table saw, or drills and whatever. It will run a small 2 gal. air compressor and I also hooked up a chest type freezer with this set up.
Anything I can plug in and run for free.... I do it. Its a good starter kit.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2011 10:12pm
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P.S. Where my cabin is located, I only get 6 1/2 hours of direct sunlight a day. Even on overcast days it still seems to charge the batteries enough. Fall/winter is just around the bend, but hopefully when the trees thin out it will give me a little bit more sunlight.
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bhebby
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 02:48pm
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Darz5150- How do you couple the batteries together so its a even draw off all 3 batteries?Or do you run one at a time and draw them down individually? Just looking for something that will funtion as a trickle charger.
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Kithera
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 05:16pm
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Short answer, yes it will work, but it is relatively expensive.
Compare the cost per watt to this:
http://www.sunelec.com/sun-solar-panel-80-watts-1750-vmp-p-1700.html
http://www.sunelec.com/specialty-concepts-solar-charge-controller-12v-8a-asc-128-p-10 0.html
If you're willing to spend a bit more, you can get a 200 watt system for about $400, including a small inverter and charge controller. It's your choice.
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mattthehairy
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 05:58pm
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That seems like a decent panel. I don't know anything about that company... not to hijack, do you know if that is a good place to order panels from online?
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bhebby
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 06:49pm
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looks good and I would rather not use Harbour freight,great prices but they are what they are I guess. Any answers on how to couple the batteries together would be great.Thanks-Brett
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 06:58pm
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Quoting: bhebby Any answers on how to couple the batteries together would be great
Here's a diagram for 2 batteries. The third battery would go in between the two pictured
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 06:59pm
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 11:19pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Better would be to use a buss bar system. That's where you have a positive and a negative copper bar or strap, sized to be able to comfortably handle any load and any input current with very little resistance. All devices attach to that, the charge controller, the batteries and the inverter. There is minimal resistance to current flow when the bars/straps are properly sized. The wiring is also neater when the number of batteries increase.
In the above two 12 volt battery system, one other advantage would be that either battery could be removed from the system if ever necessary, without interrupting any other battery or device.
Here is a photo of my buss bars and array of twelve 6 volt batteries (24 VDC system). Buss bars in the background. Note the use of copper straps for battery interconnects in place of battery cables. They were actually cheaper than quality cables.
FYI, white tape on the connecting cables is the NEC convention for marking the negative wires. Positive is always black or red under the NEC and white is reserved for neutral in SAC and negative in DC.
12 x 6 volt for a 24 VDC system
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darz5150
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2011 11:25pm
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I have the batteries connected in parallel with standard off the shelf battery cables. I connected 1 of the charge regulators to 1 of the batteries and the 2nd 1 to the other. That way if I have a problem with one of the systems I can seperate them if needed.The third car battery is hooked up like Rob O's diagram with a 10 ga. wire. All of the batteries so far keep the same charge. The deep cycle batts. are 125 AH and the car battery is ( I don't know ) I am still figuring everything out and we are by no means off the GRID. We use the "free energy " every day.It runs the water pumps for two showers, doing the dishes, flushing the toilet, and whatever power I use in the shed(usually tv a fan and lights)
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darz5150
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2011 11:16pm
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I managed to knock my electricity bill down every month since I added solar panels. On my last bill the actual cost of electricity we used was 72 cents per day! The only drawback is that it cost about $21.00 for the service charge and almost $9.00 for the security light on the power pole. Still its not too bad. A little over 50 bucks for a power bill.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2011 08:51am
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MtnDon,
What all do you run off that, and what might a setup like that cost, if you do not mind me asking?
I really do not care about the "big" things...I tend to like the ice chest etc setup, but I really want to be able to have some lights at night and maybe a heater, etc.. and a coffee maker in the morning, and perhaps a little music, nothing major.
I figure that if that was all I wanted, your setup may be a bit much...heh.. but I have no idea. I want to be able to keep it going all night, so would rather have too much than not enough.
Thanks!
R
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2011 09:28pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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We run pretty much whatever we want.
Things that are used in a normal day: two to three 26 watt CFL's in the evening or on a cloudy day, Microwave, blender, coffee maker, exterior lights to the shed, light in shed. TV and DVD.
Toaster, electric can opener, ceiling fan, CD stereo every 2 or three days.
Vacuum when needed, fan on propane heater or wood stove as needed (daily in winter), electric blanket to warm bed after arriving on a cold fall or winter day.
Power tools; skilsaw, compressor, saw chain sharpener, battery chargers (tools, phone, computer....) whenever we want.
Probably some things I have forget.
I didn't want to have to worry about using one or more 'big' items at a time so we have a 3500 watt inverter.
I didn't want to have to worry about 2 or 3 cloudy days in a row, so we have a good size battery bank
From the three 208 watt PV modules, the 300+ feet of wire to the cabin where the charge controller, etc are located it's about $8K when all the nuts and bolts, etc are counted.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2011 09:38pm
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Very nice. Well, I would like the ability to charge a few battery - op'd tools, but, for the most part, I do not mind using the generator for stuf I 'need'. What I REALLY want to do is just turn on a light and not worry about it, and set a coffee maker up to go run in the morning so we have hot coffee.. and maybe run the a/c unit if it could, but I do not think I can spend 8k on that.. heh
Maybe next year. Right now, I think I can do a couple K and see what I can run off that. I know the A/C unit is the big power drain. Currently, that is really ALL we use the generator for, and a couple small lights (2 desk lights to be exact).
So, we do not have a lot. Later, when we build the new cabin, I am sure we will add a 12v water pump to pressurize a bathroom.
If I could get by with not having to start the generator or run it to keep the a/c working...and still be able to have even one light and/or a coffee maker...man, that would be MORE than enough for me.
R
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2011 10:10pm
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I've been thinking about a solar array just to power some lights and perhaps a ceiling fan. I really like the idea of LED Christmas lights.
What I'd really like is to have a light switch by the door that would turn on some lights when I arrive at the cabin when it's dark so I don't have to start up the generator right away.
The one advantage I see to the Harbor Fright setup, at least for me, is that there are 2 stores here in the KC area that I can just go get the things from and not worry about the shipping costs. They offer free replacement warranties so that if the thing messes up I can just bring it back and swap it for a new one. Granted, they aren't going to be the best thing out there but their stuff usually functions.
The one Rob_O mentioned looks like a quality unit and if I'm not mistaken it's free shipping.... at least that's the way it appears when I place the order. I may contact them and see for sure.
Good thread and as always good advice for the novice.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2011 10:14pm
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I really dislike running a generator. Ours gets run mostly just to keep it "healthy". And sometimes for equalizing; in summer though the PV modules can even do that on a sunny day.
And we have a small 10,000 BTU A/C heat pump. Forgot about that. At most it gets run maybe 2 hours a day only in the hottest weather. It's usually no problem as if we need to run it is is sunny and hot. No humidity problem where we are.
If I was doing the A/C over I'd go for a slpit mini that can run as a heater as well as A/C. I know someone in CA who runs his slpit mini in winter whenever there is an excess of PV power available.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 06:18am
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Yes, the A/C I am looking at is 23,500 BTU and does cooling AND heat. It is.. well, let me add the info:
Air Conditioner Product Type : Window Unit
Air direction/circulation : 4-way
Amperage (amps) : 14 A
Automatic shutoff : No
BTU Cooling Rating : 23500 Btu/h
BTU Heat Rating : 11000 Btu/h
Energy Efficiency Ratio (EER) : 8.5
Energy Star Compliant : No
Sleep setting : No
Timer : No
UL Listed : 1-UL Listed
Voltage (volts) : 230 V
Window opening maximum width (in.) : 41
Window opening minimum height (in.) : 19.25
Window opening minimum width (in.) : 29
As you can see, the Solar is the way to go, most definitely, but I have zero idea what I would need to be able to run this, and I would HAVE to run it a LOT during the summer due to major heat...heh
The good part about the summer is that it is a LOT of daylight.
Question: As if it ever rains here.. what do you all do when it hails, replace solar panels?;)
So, I would want to run THAT A/C unit...and 1-2 LED lights, and a coffee maker ;)
I will probably take that estimate and double it, to give me more than enough.
I will then have the generator on days when I have to run it rather than every day.
I too hate having to start the generator when I get to the cabin OR in the morning...defeats the purpose of 'peace and quiet'.
Thank you!
Russ
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 06:20am
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Oh, if you all know of a better a/c unit.. let me know. I know swamp coolers are good, but they only cool AND I need a lot of cooling. I would love a remote control unit, but will let that be on my "want" not "need" list ;)
Russ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 10:31am
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The first thing that caught my eye on that spec list was the SEER rating of 8.5. I would not even try to assemble a PV system to try to run that. It does not have a high enough efficiency rating. A SEER of at least double that, preferably even as high as 20+, would be the minimum for powering by solar generated electricity.
Window units don't have high SEER ratings as a rule as the law says they are exempt from energy conservation rules. If that was a permanent mount type it could not even be sold. The only A/C units that make sense for PV are the split minis. Some of the better ones have SEER as high as 22, most good ones will be 16 or better. And they cost in the thousands for 23K BTU cooling. They will also need large PV systems. My PV system would not run one very long without some more PV modules.
Is your generator big enough to start that A/C? They sometimes need twice the rated amps for a start surge.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 10:50am
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Yes, my generator is large enough, it is a 7000 watt unit... but, I am ALL for a better unit, I just need an idea of what to get. We get REALLY hot down there and I have to get something that will cool the place. Water is better than gold, so a swamp cooler would not work simply because we would have to have water delivered. It is hard enough getting water for ourselves, so to build something that requires it would be counter-productive, I would think.
Hrm... I need to find a better alternative then.
We currently run a 14k btu portable A/C which is fine as long as the fun is not shining.. lol seriously though.. it cools fast as long as direct sunlight is not heating the cabin. The second the sun is behind the hills, it cools the place down.
Now, what I figure might help is that there is no radiant barrier. Since the new cabin will have radiant barrier on all the roof as well as we will have a 12ft covered porch on both sides with radiant barrier on that as well, we should be able to really shade the house, and thus may not need a really high end A/C unit, and we can always use the wall mounted venting heater.
Ideas?
Russ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 11:50am
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I would not rely on a radiant barrier as my main means of keeping heat out. For one thing dust slowly collects on the reflective surface reducing the reflectivity over time. If you do some searching, staying away from the radiant mfg websites, you won't find radiant being included much if at all in high energy efficiency homes. It's hard to beat good thermal insulation.
I know someone in Moab UT, very hot, intense sunshine in the summer. For your new place consider a double framed wall. That is an exterior frame work as usual and then a second framework inside that with a space of a couple inches at least, between. His walls are nearly 12 inches thick The ineer and outer framing does not touch so there is a wonderful thermal break. The walls are filled with high density blown in cellulose. It requires very little A/C or heating. I think he has something like R55 in the ceiling as well.
If this is a full time place consider lots of thermal mass. The old thick adobe walled homes here in NM stay surprisingly cool. Thermal mass works against you though in a part time occupancy. It slowly soaks up heat when all closed up and then when yopu arrive it takes a long time to cool down.
A split mini A/C is the best bet as far as overall efficiency and cost of operation over future years when energy will likely cost more and more.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 11:58am
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Well, this is a weekend get-a-way, not a full time residence etc, so adding a 12" wall would be too much. I am not sure what a split-mini is, but I will definitely look into it.
The radiant barrier will have either a metal roof or shingles over it, so should minimize the loss, but I just want to remove SOME of the heat, I agree with you it is not a perfect solution, but it has to be better than what we have now.. heh.
As much as I want a loft and/or high ceiling, if it would keep the place cooler, I may just opt for a 8-9ft ceiling and sheetrock it all so we can blow a lot of insulation up there. The shade generated by the porches all around the sides should keep the walls cool enough that we can get a smaller unit.
I'll keep you posted so you can advise me as we go ;) I would LIKE to try to keep the A/C at 110volt, which would be a heck of a lot better.
I wonder if 2 110 units would be better than a single 230v unit.
Russ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 02:36pm
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Two 110 A/C would have the advantage of you being able to run only one and probably save a little fuel.
You are in SW TX I believe. The minimum R-value recommended for that area is R-30 for a ceiling/attic. That is kind of hard to accomplish in a roof like a cathedral ceiling for loft use. So there is an advantage to a regular ceiling, one story. We have R55 in the ceiling of our NM desert home (R30 originally) and it made a difference we noticed.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 02:58pm
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Good information. I think I will forego the loft in order to obtain the best use, that of a cooler room.. heh.
So, if I forget the whole 23,500 btu unit and start with a 110 capable A/C and then I have the portable one we already have, think that might be easier to come up with a solar solution for?
Thanks for all the help, Mnt!
Russ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 05:38pm
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My opinion and that's all it is, is that a PV based solution would really need huge amounts of PV and battery unless the SEER is up at 16-17 or better.
I'm not sure where to look for an expert opinion on just how much electrical power would be used in a typical install in your area? Maybe a friendly local A/C contractor?
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 06:03pm
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PV? What is PV?
Well, not sure if I can come up with the means to do without the generator then. I guess I will just have to install a generator setup for the A/C and maybe enclose it in some sort of sound-proof room.
Russ
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