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TranquilMan
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2024 10:02pm
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We have an off-grid cabin on a lake in NW Ontario. Our water supply to the cabin has worked well for the past 10 years until this spring when we opened in June.
Pump: ShurFlo 2088-443-144 max 45 psi, cycles on @20 psi off @ 40 psi; powered by dedicated solar and battery; water line intake at 10-12 ft. depth; lift is 4-6 ft. water surface to pump; lift tp cabin ~17 ft.; water line to pump 1/2"; pump to cabin 5/8"; at cabin 1/2" to on demand water heater, kitchen sink, washroom basin and shower. This has been reliable and almost always problem free until now.
Problem: The pump runs and self primes but when pumping out a drain line near the pump, it pulses. When the drain valve is closed it will not pump up to the cabin or pressurize. For now we are using a back-up gravity feed system but it doesn't have the pressure to run the propane water heater. I'm planning to replace the pump perhaps with one that will operate at a higher 30-50 psi range. Any suggestions appreciated. I'll attach a diagram of the set-up.
Tranquil Man
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TranquilMan
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2024 10:05pm
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Here's the diagram of the system.
Tranquil Cabin water system
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2024 10:32pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Not sure but sounds like a pump problem. This is the one I’ve used in a very similar setup for the last 2 years. Works well for me. Operates at 45 psi.
https://a.co/d/h9FOhhO
Edit: after reading again our setup may vary. We use a jet pump to pump to a tank by the cabin- that does the heavy lifting for us. Then we use the shur Flo just for the water at the cabin.
Are you using the same pump to pull from the lake as you use to pressurize your system? Maybe it’s too much for the small pump and the reason for it going out prematurely? Just a thought.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2024 11:01pm
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Diaphram pump? Some times junk can get stuck in the valves of these style pumps making 1 of the few diaphrams not pump. Symptoms are pulsing and weak flow/pressure.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 28 Aug 2024 05:09am - Edited by: spencerin
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Probably just the pump went kaput, especially if you've been using it for the entire 10 years. Get yourself a nicer, newer ShurFlo, or a Seaflo.....
Or maybe you have a leak near or at the pump to where it's sucking in mainly air. I recently had a hairline crack in a brass fitting that messed with my pump. It appeared in warm weather, too, months after winter had passed.....
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TranquilMan
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2024 08:15pm
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The ShurFlo is dedicated to pressurized water deliver from the lake up to the cabin. It has been in service problem free for several years so I know it does the job - until now. Next trip in I'll open it up to see if it is clean or damaged.
The 2088-443-144 I have been using is a 3 chamber, max pressure 45 psi set to range 20-40 psi. I'm wondering if a newer 4 chamber ShurFlo is better. I'm considering a 4008-101-A65 which is max pressure 55 psi. I'm wondering if it comes pre-set to 30-50 psi range.
Thanks for the comments. As we head into September now I may not get this resolved until spring but hope to get it all figured out this fall by close-up.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2024 10:43pm
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That's a 3.8gpm unit? I would buy a cheap 5gpm unit just before you go so of you can fix the old one return the new one.
The pressure is adjustable on these via a Philip's screw on the front. In all reality though GPM means more than the difference between 45 to 55psi.
I have used a 12v3gpm pump to pump about 10ft vertically and they really drop off the GPM fast. The cabin I'm building now will use a 120v pump. It gives me more options and less voltage drop under load.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 30 Aug 2024 12:14pm
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If your pump still runs it’s more than likely something with the diaphragm. Either some crud in it or a tear. I’ve just had to clean mine in the past and it’s back to normal
You can get rebuild kits which might be worth taking with you in case you need to replace the diaphragm
If it works for your system stick with it
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 30 Aug 2024 01:03pm
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I seem to always try to save something by digging into it....well, pretty much at least once. But when taking a long(ish) trip I want a fall-back plan or a swap-out so Im not left hanging.
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TranquilMan
Member
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# Posted: 30 Aug 2024 05:19pm
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All good replies so thanks. I'm going in next week (20 mi. boat ride) with lumber for another project. I'll take a closer look at the screen filter for cracks or seals and the condition of the diaphragm. I'm off-grid so can only consider 12VDC option. I've got a dedicated solar system for the pump so it also means I have a backup battery if my boat battery goes dead. Saved me a couple of times.
I found a box my brother had given me he bought at a thrift store in Calgary for $5. It contained 2 Shurflo pumps and a bag of parts. Maybe I'll get lucky!
It's amazing the amount of advice and information on the world wide web once you try to solve these problems. Some good, some bad, and some just plain wrong. Also a wide range of prices.
A friend with a similar set-up is using a SHURFLO 4008-101-A65 with good results. It is a 4 chamber pump whereas my 2088 has 3 chambers.
I just called ShurFlo West Coast 1 (800) 854-3218 and spoke with a tech who was good. He said it looks like a cracked or worn out diaphragm. He said the 4008 model would be a good choice if I do need to replace it and confirmed the factory specs:
self priming to 6 ft.
max pressure 55 psi
pump on at 40 psi
set accumulator pressure tank 2 psi below pump on pressure (i.e. 38 psi).
My 2008 model had a range 20 - 40 psi so pressure tank set at 18 psi.
I'll log in down the road to post what ended up working.
Tranquil Man
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2024 01:12am
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I believe the 4008 is a Revolution, which is a solid pump, and has been a well-selling pump for Shurflo for some time
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paulz
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2024 02:58pm
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Quoting: TranquilMan I'll log in down the road to post what ended up working. Tranquil Man
You provoked me to have a look at my pump under the cabin, 10 years of trouble free so far but gets relied on daily. It’s gravity fed so that probably helps. Thought it was a Shurflo but it’s a Flojet, different maker I assume. 12v 50 psi. Maybe I should buy a spare.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 12:34am
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Two is one
One is none
(in a failure)
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 01:24am
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Quoting: paulz Thought it was a Shurflo but it’s a Flojet
Flojet is another long time pump maker.
Whether or not one should have a spare depends on the tolerance one has if the pump was to fail. Or the price one places on the inconvenience.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 10:17am
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I've discovered something interesting about the Shurflo
pumps. Mine is a 110 version that I hooked directly to a beam under the house.
It sure makes a ton of noise and vibration which reverberates through the house!! Probably need to isolate it from the frame. I'm going to try the short hoses they sell to try to alleviate the vibration....
I had to fiddle for a while to find an air leak somewhere on the intake side from holding tank to pump. It would not stop running even when the valve was shut off to pump. All is working fine but boy is it loud!.
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paulz
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 02:00pm
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Mine is also screwed to a floor joist, you know it’s going but not terribly loud. Maybe the Flojet is quieter?
Thanks Izzy, since my tank is 25ft above, dead pump gravity feed would be livable for a week. Only really need the pump for shower or quicker coffee pot fill. But it looks like only around 100 bucks for a spare.
Then I’d have to decide, 12v as now or AC like most of you guys now. I’d probably leave the inverter on all day, only use it a bit now.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 02:26pm - Edited by: Nobadays
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Quoting: rachelsdad It sure makes a ton of noise and vibration which reverberates through the house!! Probably need to isolate it from the frame. I'm going to try the short hoses they sell to try to alleviate the vibration....
We have avoided noise issues for our under cabin pump by doing 2 things. One it is in a box sitting on the plywood the tanks sit on which is not attached to the cabin in any way, second we used Flexzilla 3' hoses (suitable for potable water) to make attachments on both ends: to the tanks and to the PEX that attaches to the copper for the cabin system.
I won't tell you that you can't hear it but it has to be pretty quiet in the cabin before it is noticeable. I prefer to hear it a little because if there is a leak I want to know. This works well... our neighbor has his attached to a support beam and it is horribly noisy!
Edit: THESE are the hoses.
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paulz
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 04:14pm - Edited by: paulz
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Yes I like hearing it to. I have a wall switch inside, only on when needed, never overnight. It does go on every once in awhile if left on to keep up the sitting pressure.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 04:54pm
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Paul, the energy loss from leaving the inverter on all the time for just some periodic pump running could be pretty substantial.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 10:36pm
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Quoting: paulz Then I’d have to decide, 12v as now or AC like most of you guys now. I’d probably leave the inverter on all day, only use it a bit now
I use a 12 VDC Shurflo at the cabin. I wanted to be able to run the pump w/o the inverter. If I had a dpare it would also be a 12 VDC. Easier to swap of the power is the same.
For connection hoses I use undersink faucet hoses with the S/S braided cover. Similar to.... https://www.lowes.com/pd/ReliaBilt-1-2-in-FIP-12-in-Braided-Stainless-Steel-Flexible- Faucet-Supply-Line/5013470755
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ICC
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 10:39pm
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My pump is not screwed down to anything. It sits on a rubber cushion mat.
I feel the same as Nobadays as far as noise. I like to be able to hear it as if there is a leak the slight pump noise is a warning.
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paulz
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2024 11:23pm
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Ok 12v again for/if a spare, thanks guys. Also just took another look, I hung it from a floor joist alright, but just one screw partway in, really is just hanging. Maybe that kills some noise or vibration. Didn’t do that on purpose, just a lazy sob. Hard enough hooking the hoses/wires under there.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2024 01:38am
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Bungee cords hold some of my 'temp projects' hanging out of the way and no vibes.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2024 12:01pm
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Mine is screwed to my water tank frame. Can still hear it as the pex lines rattle when running but I prefer that for a leak notice as well
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2024 07:00pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Mine is screwed to the rimjoist as well but I have it screws through about 3 Inches of pink foam. Seems to work well- similar noise as others. I can hear it but not really. Also think it’s important to hear to know when running or if there’s a leak. We have a seperate pump switch and always turn off at night as well.
Not the best photo but can see how the pump is attached through the foam.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2024 07:15pm
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Quoting: Grizzlyman seperate pump switch
Always a good idea to have switches or disconnects. Same thing with fuel gas shutoffs.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2024 01:16am - Edited by: spencerin
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Mine is screwed to a block of PT wood sitting on gravel, and I use flex hoses to connect it to my cabin's pex main line. Previously I had the flex hoses loosely wrapped around drain lines to take up slack and keep them off the ground, but it still vibrated loudly, much more loudly than I had expected. So, I took the flex hoses off the drain lines and put them on the ground, and that solved the problem. You can still barely hear a hum, but like previously mentioned, that's good for identifying leaks, which has been helpful on one occasion so far.....
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