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gcrank1
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 02:09pm
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I think that a typical hand pump and/or shallow well pump is only good to something like 23 feet (And the pipe needs to be farther down below that static water level to have water to draw from within whatever casing there is for volume and the recovery rate from the (in our case) sand point)
Does that 23 feet change in different elevations?
That is measured from ground level to the water level but if a well pit is dug down say 8 feet, does that mean the max 23' is now below the well pit 'floor'?
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travellerw
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 02:55pm - Edited by: travellerw
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My understanding is its measured from the pump head to the bottom of the sucker pipe. Its the total distance you are sucking (or applying a vacuum).
However, I think your number is a little short. Pretty sure its 33ft at sea level. Pretty much accepted that 28ft is a "safe(ish)" number.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 03:18pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Found online:
Max theoretical 33ish ft.
The max practical depth that a shallow well pump (typically called a suction pump) can lift is 25ish feet at sea level. That is reduced by about 1ft for every 900ft of altitude/elevation.
The 'suction' pump isnt sucking the water up, it is sucking the air out allowing the atmospheric pressure (about 14.7psi at sea level) to push the water up.
The distance is usually said to be 25'/sl from the water static level to the inlet height of the pump. The pipe can be deeper but the lift is limited to the 25'.
So, this says to me that a pit would help at about 23' in WI but might require a holding/pressure tank in the pit to pump from to the surface.
If Im getting this right.....Im sooo on the edge here.
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ICC
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 06:43pm
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If your calculated lift distance is marginal because of the altitude adjustment a manual pump may not be satisfactory. The GPM delivery out of the pump will likely decrease with the lift distance.
A similar reduction in GPM performance is seen with electric pumps too. With home being about 7500 feet elevation and my cabin at 9000 I am personally acquainted with performance reduction of electric pumps. Should be about the same with a hand pump.
FYI, there are manual pumps made that are suitable for deeper wells. They dro the valve assembly down the well pipe. Rather than trying to "suck" the water up they push the water up the pipe. Actually lift the water to the outlet point. Those can be a real muscle builder as if the pump is dropped to 60 feet when you pump you are lifting that many feet of water to the surface. I have a friend who has one with an electric motor that drives the pump lift.
I forget the name but can probably find it. Or Google manual deep well pump, or something like that.
-izzy
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 08:36pm
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Im batting this around because our place has an old 2 1/4"? driven well pipe that the po had an elec pump mounted on to fill a stock water tank for years before he built the cabin. He would come out with a gen and fill when needed.
It has been capped off since 2019 when I sounded for the static level and bleach shocked it. The pump is long gone. Thinking on trying to run some water out, maybe a lot, then testing it. Might be too expensive to pursue if too deep and/or only good for utility.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 09:20pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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I like this I found online:
"You can pump water to the moon but you can only 'suck' it 25 feet".
And
The higher the elevation the shallower the well needs to be.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 09:45pm
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The depth the pump can suck from is measured from the static water level. Dosnt matter how deep the pipe is as it's not sucking the bottom. Its sucking from the static water level... but and this is a big variable if you have poor recharge of a well and the water level drops alot your head pressure or suction depth changes alot.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 12:04am
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Yeah, a too small or clogged screen at the point that wont maintain 23ish feet static could quickly become ineffective. Our 'demand' wouldnt be much; ie, wouldnt need to be fast, just pump utility water into the rain barrels to fill initially, or top up as needed.
IF it turns out to be viable, and potable, we would just keep our 2ish gal water jug topped too.
We had a drought year this last, took until late July? to get the 2 50ish gal rain barrels full, and that was with us bringing extra water; we didnt get much rain. Shame I had to dump it all in winter prep....but that did get me thinking that I should maybe be workin on that 'pipe' for the future.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 12:34am
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I'd thought hard about doing a 2" driven well, but static water level is about 45 feet down.
https://www.proactivedirect.biz/ss-mini-monsoon-xl-60-pump
There are plastic and stainless pumps like above for something like $70-200. Wouldn't work for pressure maintain, or full time use...but for batch pumping, they'd do the trick in a small well pipe.
-Nate
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 08:24am
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Like others have said, wells with static level deeper than 25’ you can’t use a regular “pitcher†pump you will need to have pump that jacks the water up from the bottom. These two companies make nice products https://simplepump.com/ and https://www.bisonpumps.com/
I know simple pump can be installed in a 2†driven point, not sure about bison
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 09:33am
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I have a 2" sand point well started in our cabin. Just need to get an electric jack hammer to finish. The well drilling company that I bought the sand point from told me these tips.
First I bought the best point I could. 4' stainless steel. 5 micron holes if I remember correctly. Cost me 500 $. Pour water down the pipe while drilling. When the water drains out you found the water table. Use air pressure to blow mud from the outside surface of the point. To clean it. I have a lift pump, sur flow I believe. That should lift up to 25'. With another 5 micron basket filter just before it enters the pump. This is with a garden hose, with a 1/2" hose. I have some 3/8" tubing on hand in case I need more lift. The 12v pump has a built in pressure switch, 40-60 psi. So it could be hooked up to the kitchen sink.
There is also a push pump that is 1-7/8" diameter that will drop down the pipe available to purchase. If I needed more lift I was looking to add that pump to the lift.
To make a driver I have a 2" to 1" bell reducer and a 12" long 1" pipe on top. I will weld a piece of 1-1/4" pipe that will slide over the 1" and make an adapter sleeve that the jack hammer driver will fit into.
Also if you weren't aware. You can use standard 2" galvanized water pipe for the casing . And there are special couplers that allow the pipe ends to match up to each other for installing them for a well casing. Well casing couplers so that the threads of the couplers don't have to take the force. I just had the well folks supply those along with the sand point. And bought 2" pipe from H D. I have the well inside so it fits under the kitchen counter top. And will be inside the kitchen cabinets. On the end so I can take the end piece off n service the pump n filter. And 12v battery that will run the pump.
I should be able to get fresh potable water right from the kitchen sink faucet.
I have a picture of the pipe started.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 10:18am - Edited by: gcrank1
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Good stuff, thanx!
Just remembered, I sounded it last summer because of the drought and think it was 33'. That made me think this wasnt going to be cheap or easy. But, it is a pipe in the ground already and the story is it used to pump water.
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ICC
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 10:21am
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I am somewhat envious of those who have a rather shallow water line. We have three wells on the ranch; 485 feet, 560 feet, and 685 feet. The shallowest well I know of in the area is 265 feet and there are several approaching 1000 feet.
-izzy
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 01:15pm
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A batch style water system would be ideal to me for a weekend cabin. Fill the tank in the cabin for the weekend and drain/blow the system out when you leave.
ICC I have a well pump at 55' in the basement of my house. Never runs dry.
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