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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 12:13
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Quoting: travellerw If you are looking for a generator that will start like your fuel injected car at 0F, I just don't think it exists.
Generac makes an FI generator I see, maybe others. Our fire department just got an FI chainsaw!
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 12:16
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I dont think we are talking in the same ball park here
The EU7000 is around $5000 - $6000
For that price you can get a whole house standby Generac
I dont think it is reasonable to compare an $800 generator to a $6000+ generator
Completely different animals
In terms of use - when at the cabin, I use it multiple time each day to get water
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 12:28
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Here's a hack I've been using for years, for hard starting Genny's and motors.
I drill a one size smaller than 3/8 hole in the air cleaner box, as close to the air intake as possible. Then thread a short 3/8 bolt in the hole. This makes it easy to remove the bolt and squirt starter fluid in without taking the whole air cleaner assembly off. Now here's a kicker. It also works shooting propane from a torch in it.
Bolt/plug
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Easy access squirt hole
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 12:40 - Edited by: gcrank1
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I think you could use the same hole for a small hose nipple to make it run on LP (with the gasoline valve turned off). Once running and warmed up on LP it should start and run on gasoline pretty quick.
Cap the nipple off with a vacuum line cap from the auto parts store.
It would still serve as a starting fluid port too if needed.
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 12:48 - Edited by: darz5150
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Quoting: gcrank1 I think you could use the same hole for a small hose nipple to make it run on LP (with the gasoline valve turned off).
We did that before with big whole shop generator that didn't like cold weather.
We just put a piece of copper line in a rubber hose, then to the squirt port.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 15:11
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My skidsteer is an absolute nightmare to start when its been sitting and its cold. I replaced the blown up Ford engine with a 1000cc predator. It works great except for starting.
Its such a PIA that I'm building a fuel squirter system that I can run from the cab. Otherwise its a 2 person job to start when its cold (one in the cab, sitting in the seat to disable all the safety gizmos and one spraying starter fluid/carb cleaner down the throat for the first 5-8 seconds of run time).
I have tried all the hacks on the internet to keep the carb from loosing its prime. Nothing has worked.
Anyway.. I hope the OP posts back at his decision and how it worked out. I find it interesting that propane is preferred. Its great and clean, but here its just a PIA to get (limited number of stations actually deal in propane.... and the lineups at Costco is insane most days).
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 16:27
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Yeah we use propane and found that the generator seems to start a "little" easier than gasoline
We have a line run to the generator for propane and a huge propane tank hidden at the back of the cabin
So we use the propane tank for the generator, stove and hot water on demand heater
Seems to work well for us and the tank last us maybe 2 years before we need a refill................saves my carrying in gasoline cans every time I am up there, other than for the 4 wheelers
Though the generator in the winter is tough
The problem is that the generator i have no longer works on gasoline and i tried everything for that (some of my buddies also took it apart, cleaned it, replaced the carb, spark plug, cleaned the lines, filter, etc and nothing seemed to work - and we have always used ethanol free
So we moved to propane and it worked perfectly
Though last weekend it struggled though that could simply be the cold
But likely not back there now till March/April but was trying to plan ahead for a replacement generator as this one seems to be dying a slow death!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 16:53
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The 'fuel/air' mix for the engine to run is supplied typically via the carburetor (now fuel injection on bigger stuff) or in the case of LP via a venturi (tube) with an LP orifice sized to the load demand (not unlike a simple propane stove). The LP needle jet is adjusted (at factory or if a conversion by you) to get the right fuel/air mix within the venturi into the combustion chamber for the desired rpm for the gen to output the power you want. I expect that on gens with a 'no-load' rpm reduction it is just a low speed orifice.
Btw, LP/NG has fewer btu's than gasoline that is why it has less power in a given engine.
On a dual fuel unit the gasoline carb acts as the LP/NG venturi and doesnt need the float bowl and internal gasoline jets, throttle plate or choke to work.
So, all that to say....if your unit wont run on gasoline anymore it is def in the gasoline delivery system.
Does gas get to the float bowl of the carb? If not, perhaps an electronic fuel safety valve isnt activating (ie, the same as you not turning on a petcock).
If the gas line runs gas at the float bowl hose inlet but the bowl doesnt fill the float valve is stuck closed. If it overflows gas the valve is stuck open. Both can happen when the carb isnt used for a good while.
If the float bowl fills but wont suck gas up into the venturi to run the jets or passages after the jets to the venturi are clogged up.
What Im suggesting is you and the buds are missing the plug and ready to toss a gen because of a relatively, but admittedly aggravating, carb issue.
Get gas running freely into the float bowl.
Get gas sucking up into the venturi when cranking over.
Tip: Ive used a hand spray bottle with gas to mist into a carb throat to act as a 'carb' to get things to run and prove they run.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 19:37
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Quoting: gcrank1 the case of LP via a venturi (tube) with an LP orifice sized to the load demand
I’m a propane dummy, except for heater and bbq. But my new (to me) cabin genny is LP. Is that why it runs at a constant rpm, no matter the load?
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 20:24
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Think so, Ive been studying up on making my own conversion setup for my old Kaw 3500W with the rotted out steel gas tank.
The gen unit has to be spun at the target rpm to output in the desired window of operation and has to have enough 'throttle' to hold that rpm under the output load capacity.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 21:51
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Quoting: travellerw replaced the blown up Ford engine with a 1000cc predator. It works great except for starting.
That's odd. I had a 1957 gas ford tractor with original carb, points and it was left outside alot. It would start reliable in 5*f. One winter I found it wouodnt actually move because there was so much water in the transmission. It would stall the 60hp engine.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2023 22:09 - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: Brettny That's odd. I had a 1957 gas ford tractor with original carb, points and it was left outside alot. It would start reliable in 5*f. One winter I found it wouodnt actually move because there was so much water in the transmission. It would stall the 60hp engine.
I think Ford had some pretty great improvements in tractors after the N series (N series ended in 1952 I think). We have an Ford 9N and it won't start below about -5C. No matter how much huffin juice I give it, or how hard I boost it. I just fires and dies, OVER AND OVER.. well at least for 20 min before I gave up. It has an updraft carb and they were notorious for not starting in the cold.
Unfortunately I didn't get to see how the Ford in the skidsteer worked. It was blown up when I bought it (why I got it for next to nothing). Parts were either unobtanium, or stupid expensive if I could find them. So I opted to swap to the predator. I also loved that I got to ditch the water cooling and just go with air. It has been running like that for over a year and lifted much more than its rating. IF ONLY IT STARTED GOOD!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2023 10:31
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I grew up with a Ford '49? N that would start when nothing else would. Dad had changed the 6v battery to an 8 and hot wired the gen to put out full so the 8v stayed charged. It was the primary snow plow rig with the back blade.
Dependable like a Timex.
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redwolfguild
Member
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2023 15:18
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Quoting: zorro I dont think we are talking in the same ball park here The EU7000 is around $5000 - $6000 For that price you can get a whole house standby Generac I don't think it is reasonable to compare an $800 generator to a $6000+ generator Completely different animals In terms of use - when at the cabin, I use it multiple time each day to get water
I guess I have more money than time to throw at my problems. Starting a generator multiple times per day to get water, that sucks.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2023 15:29
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That sounds like a Lot of water
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2024 21:30 - Edited by: paulz
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My regular genny wasn’t charging my bank the other evening. Went in the shed, here’s my original genny, over 20 years old, built my entire property with it, cabin, shop, car port… It’s beat to death, front panel long gone, air filter..
Fired up first pull! Charged my bank at 80 amps. Luckily circuit breaker had just tripped on new genny..
Question: Screw in plastic oil dip stick. Screw in to check or rest on top?
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2024 23:02 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Many are 'rest on top', and the units dont carry a lot of oil, they arent like a car with 1qt between the high and low marks; maybe a pint? Most stuff I just keep the oil level 'between the lines'.
I mostly use total synthetic multi-grade now, especially for cold weather engines. Not for my likely to die anytime lawn tractor though, it still gets good quality petro oil. It only gets used in warm grass growing weather....iirc about 13years on an inexpensive MTD made unit that should only have lasted maybe 8years.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2024 23:33
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Quoting: redwolfguild Starting a generator multiple times per day to get water, that sucks.
I saw a neat trick on youtube recently for cabin water. I guy installed a hand pump at his sink and a ball valve inline under the sink to save his initial prime. When he leaves for a time, he opens the valve to let the water drain back to prevent freezing.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2024 07:57 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: gcrank1 Many are 'rest on top
Here’s a three page debate, I ran out of tally, “screw it in†might have won. Includes quotes from manuals, both ways.
My old genny must have 3/4†of thread, as much as the dip stick reading area.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dipstick-screw-in-or-not.235921/
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2024 08:24
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I just did a Generator Upgrade, handed over my GAS Champion 3650W Inverter/Generator to a neighbour who I just built a small solar system for and upgraded to a new Champion 5500-Watt Dual Fuel Inverter with CO Shield (links to CDN models, there equivalent are US models, ).
Gotta say, my previous one never gave any issues at all nd was just lovely... but I needed something a wee bit bigger + ability to use LPG easily... The new one is also really nice, easy start.
Sadl;y ONE NASTY that still happens with these models... Oil Changing is a PITA... The drain tube that is installed works IF you lift the genny up and tilt it... the case design does not allow for the drain tube to hang down fully to drain easily... IDIOT DESIGN FLAW they were told about by MANY Champion Owners... The fix is easy but not polite or pleasant and "stupid" because this should be fixed pre-production. You have to cut a notch into the bottom of the case side to allow the line to hang down & drain properly.
COST !! EVERYONE WONDERS !
My cost in Canada with Taxes etc rolled up came to $1300 CDN / $967 USD
Because I am only using the L5:30 from the genset and my Charger is set to charge the Battery Bank @ 80A, the system only pulls 120V/23-25A or around 2850W to do so while leaving room to service the Passthrough power. The genset is not "working hard" and well within the running watts range with a bit of room to spare so the fuel lasts a lot longer.
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darz5150
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2024 10:48
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To help change oil. I take a turkey baster. Put a piece of rubber fuel line on the end. Stick it in the fill hole and suck out the oil. You still may have have to tilt the Genny a little, but this will suck most all of the oil out. If need be, you can put a little nipple of copper line on the hose to get it in easier.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2024 10:00
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You could just tilt the unit towards the drain tube?
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2024 17:06
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Couple open box deals at Harbor Freight today. The big one down from $2,300, other from 909. Last thing I need. I went for that LP refiller gizmo, out of stock!
IMG_2094.jpeg
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2024 09:24
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You do know they make oil drain extension hoses? Like THIS one.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2024 14:06
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I’ve been using my old genny pictured above, gotta be 20 years old. A friend says use an “inverter generator†for electronic stuff. Yeah the new ones say “inverter generatorâ€..
What makes an inverter genny? Is my old thing a non?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2024 14:59 - Edited by: ICC
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The engine in your old generator spins a rotor in a generator that produces AC current at 120 volts.
The engine in an inverter-generator drives a generator that produces DC voltage and then runs that thru a pure sine wave inverter to produce AC current from the DC. The AC produced is cleaner that that produced by most older, or new, Non-inverter type generators.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2024 16:11
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Quoting: ICC The engine in an inverter-generator drives a generator that produces DC voltage and then runs that thru a pure sine wave inverter to produce AC current from the DC. The AC produced is cleaner that that produced by most older, or new, Non-inverter type generators
This also means the engine can run at different speeds depending on output needed. Generaly this means less noise and less fuel used.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2024 17:28
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When my Lil'Champ Inv/Gen is on Eco it is very quiet; it stays low rpms with many of my loads but spools up quick when a big load is applied. I like it very much 
Mine is gas but the next size up is gas or propane.
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