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paulz
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 03:40pm
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I fellow from the UK was telling me about a guy with a creek who built an electric generator where paddles were driven by the flowing water. Sounded good to me, I have decent creek flow in winter/spring.
Another thing he mentioned was using steam from boiling water to drive a generator. Like from a wood fire?
Anyone familiar with these subjects?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 05:53pm
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Look up info on the Newcomen Engine, the low pressure atmospheric 'steam' engine that preceded the powerful steam engines we think of.
It is a diy build but inefficient.
Making an efficient steam engine is far more difficult.
Flowing water solves the energy source issue; ie, you dont have to make the power, just find a way to best utilize it.
To me, getting enough torque from the flow to drive an elec generator is the problem. As the charging amps go up so does the resistance to rotation, that is, it takes more power to drive. I found that out trying to run an old Toyota alternator off a small B&S engine. It would spin fine until I flipped the switch to make the reg/rec charge my depleted 12v 'marine deep cycle' bat. Instant BOG. Once I got the pulley ratios good enough to not die my charging amps were so low it had to run half a day to give us a few hours of light off the bat. But those were not LEDs, they were the old RV Edison type incandescents, HOGs, a 50w bulb was about -5amps/hr draw! A 25w was half the draw but only little better in illumination than a wide wick kero lamp.
Since Ive been using LFP bats, LED lights and charging whenever I run the little gen things have been WAY better than those Dark Ages.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2023 09:48am
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I think the water generators are Pelton Wheels. Had a friend in Oregon who used one to generate all their power needs. As gcrank1 pointed out, head plus volume are the big things. There are a few listed on Amazon and ebay. Little ones and others that generate 500w-1500w. To get that 1500w you are looking at ~50' of head with sufficient volume to keep it turning.
There is a seasonal creek by us but we figured we would have to run pipe 1/4 mile up the stream to get that kind of fall. Plus it floods once or twice a year so any dam would be washed out or filled in continually. Oh.... it's on FS land so not worth the hassle!
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Brettny
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2023 08:15pm
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I toyed around with useing our stream for power. The thing is you need quite a bit of drop and/or alot of flow. It also helps to have a short wire run.
Solar is cheaper..I know your sun light deficient though.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2023 10:46pm
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I looked into a bit..
Math is your friend. Using the water wheel dimensions, creek dimensions and a measure of water flow you can estimate how much you will generate (within %10). You will probably be surprised at how little it will generate (you need big water to make decent power). However, its 24H generation. Unlike solar its a constant number of watts all the time. So it can make sense sometimes.
For me.. It was WAY cheaper and easier to just put up more solar.. I think this is why there isn't a ton of information on it on the internet. People do the math and figure out the same thing.
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Provolone
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 07:43am
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I've heard about those homemade generators. Using a creek for hydroelectric power can be a neat idea, especially if you've got good flow. As for the steam generator, it's a classic DIY setup. You can definitely use a wood fire to boil water and create steam to power a generator. Just gotta be careful with safety measures and all that.
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Alaskajohn
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 08:45am
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Quoting: Brettny I toyed around with useing our stream for power. The thing is you need quite a bit of drop and/or alot of flow. It also helps to have a short wire run. Solar is cheaper..I know your sun light deficient though
I have a stream running through my property, and there is a nice 5 ft drop at one place. During droughts I have use it to collect water from my gardens. Not sure how to accurately measure flow rate, but it will fill a 5 gallon bucket in 4-5 seconds. Problem is that it’s about a 1/3 mile from my home. It also freezes in the winter.
Unfortunately for solar, the sun dips down below the southern mountains and I have about 45 or so days without sun.
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 09:53am - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: Provolone I've heard about those homemade generators
I couldn't hear my guy too well but he did mention using an old washer/dryer motor as the generator. Maybe even the drum and belt for paddle wheel. No mention of what water flow.
Quoting: travellerw However, its 24H generation.
Like that idea. I'll be keeping a close eye on my water flow this winter. Nothing so far. Sure would make a nice addition to the reduced winter solar, but I wouldn't expect much. About 100' of wire.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 10:17am - Edited by: gcrank1
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If you want to play with it and go thru a cheap learning curve you can rig up a car alternator and make a wheel, ime dont do a belt drive, maybe a chain?
It has to be able to spin pretty fast so maybe calc how fast it spins in a car at whatever rpm it outputs decent amps; ie, to get the wheel/alt ratio right.
Then you can try to get the drive wheel to spin fast enough, and have enough flywheel effect to be able drive the alt under load of actually charging a low battery.
That all to say that the mouse driving the wheel can only make so much power.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 10:31am
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45 days without sun..... 
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travellerw
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 11:09am
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What about wind?
The little 400-600W generators are almost worthless (except at making a ton of noise). However, bigger ones in the 1000-2000W range are said to be much better. Only what I have heard, I have no experience with them. Maybe something to look into if you have a decent wind profile.
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 02:53pm
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Not much wind here. Occasionally the tops of the trees will blow around, but that’s 200’ up there. Cabin is pretty much blocked by them and the hill.
Saw this on eBay. Only 100 watts. Wouldn’t mind trying it in the creek, don’t know about a $300 gamble. I do have car alternators..
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 02:57pm
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Wonder how those little windplant gens would work on water drive?
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