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travellerw
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# Posted: 26 Mar 2023 08:26pm
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Wondering if anyone saw the Munro Live Youtube on the Amprius battery announcement?
TLDR: Amprius announced a 500Wh/kg battery technology that they are already manufacturing and using in remote monitoring stations (double the best Tesla battery). The claims were not only verified by a third party, but backed up by usage in actual real world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtZkohZRE_s
It seems like it will be a HUGE game changer for both vehicles and land based storage. It will make 1000km EVs and easy reality. A 9600Wh land bank at the same size as a single 6V FLA golf cart battery. CRAZY.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 09:05am
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BYD is also now producing Sodium Batteries and even have 2 EV's with them, now available. There will be many battery updates and a lot of news hitting us on all of this. While it's all great news, this tech will not be in Public Hands for quite some time to come yet.
Essentially, all these new battery chemistries that are "making the grade" will remain as unobtainium for a minimum of 5 years after full commercial release & volume production.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 10:02am
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BYD's sodium ion battery have an energy density of 160 Wh/kg, or 1/3 the density of Amprius.
What is exciting about Amprius is its not just proven, but already in large scale production. They are now building a second factory to up their capacity. My guess is we will see an EV with this technology in as little as 2 years but we will see.
As to the other technologies we "hear" about with crazy high densities. Well, I have a friend that is a research Chemist at a University. This was something he told me. "Ranked in order from the amount of lies they tell are - Car Salesman, Actors, Outright lairs, and finally Battery Marketing People. Until is proven by an independent third party don't believe anything in the press".
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 10:42am
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Im certainly interested in the technology and agree that the big breakthrough in EV, even stationary units, will be in batteries. I expect that my LFP's will last as long as I will be doing cabineering and by the time EV's are equal to ICE I may not be driving......
Of course, if the 'new' bats are cheap enough the bottom will fall out of the 'used LFP' market, then what do we do with them?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 10:44am
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Hahahaha SO TRUE, Real World 3rd Party testing in all Operating Conditions (Hot 140F to -35F) and all Load Levels before it's genuinely valid.
Sadly, one thing that has also happened around battery tech is the Politicization & Propaganda with some serious "Mediaganda" with inherent biases & prejudices. Ironically it comes from many sources and some that have nothing to do with Battery Tech either.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 11:13am
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Quoting: gcrank1 Of course, if the 'new' bats are cheap enough the bottom will fall out of the 'used LFP' market, then what do we do with them?
Oh, I wouldn't worry about that anytime soon. Any new awesome technology will be soaked up the car manufacturers for years before they would be available to us mere mortals.
The magic number I keep hearing is 350-400Wh/kg is the magic number. It puts EVs at equivalent range to ICE (about 800km/charger). This technology is even better than that, so I expect their door has been getting a workout from the car manufacturer showing up and trying to make an exclusive deal with them.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 11:39am
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You know... I've owned many vehicles over the past 50+ years... from small 3Cyl Suzuki's to BigBlock 402 making 900HP... My normal "street cars/trucks" always get about 500km / 300 Miles per tank. My 97 6cyl Ranger gets 550km per tank (from F to real E), which is about as much as my 08 Ram SLT 4x4 with 5.7L Hemi get's... Difference is the size of the gas tank which is quite a bit bigger... oi, believe me, my wallet is quite verbose on that.
WHAT ICE get's 800km/500 Mile Range out of a Tank ? Excluding pickups with Highway or Dual Tanks.
The fact is Manufacturers target 350/400 Miles range "average" per tank of fuel. Top up your vehicle and drive it till the Empty Light & Chime sound off and look at how many miles/kilometers you got... Do drive like normal when checking that.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 01:17pm - Edited by: travellerw
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Here is a few cars that get near or over the 800km/500 mile range. These cars are also similar to things like Tesla M3, Chev Bolt, Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Kona EV, ect ect..
Nissan Sentra
Chevrolet Spark
Kia Forte
Hyundai Kona
Jaguar XF
VW Golf
VW Golf GTD
Frankly, my Tesla M3 has 440km of range and its more than enough for us. Even in winter at -35C we are still getting 200km of range even with the car sitting outside for 10 hours. Personally, I don't know anyone who regularly drives 200km/day. It also charges in like 18 min at a Supercharger. However, I have only done that once just for fun. We charge in the garage nightly!
Interestingly our Tesla has an LFP battery too!
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 01:37pm
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Funny part is, most (almost everyone) is not aware that LFP used in vehicles is actually LYFP because it is Yttrium Doped so that they can operate @ low temps and take charge at low temps. This is NOT the same as the LFP Batteries people buy for Energy Storage as they are not doped with Yttrium. That does add a significant extra to the cost as Yttrium is not cheap by any means.
As I understand it at present, all EV LFP is LYFP or a variant thereof. They are not making packs for "Hot Regions or Cold Regions" but rather for "All Regions".
Awwww, just waiting on a decent 4x4 E-Truck, with full 8' box and minimal techno-blingo junk... which I can hang on my Solar System for changing and or V2H <-> use... 4x4 because of steep driveway & nasty assed winter like we just had here in the Algonquin. My snowbanks are still 3m+ tall, 
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travellerw
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 02:18pm
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Quoting: Steve_S As I understand it at present, all EV LFP is LYFP or a variant thereof. They are not making packs for "Hot Regions or Cold Regions" but rather for "All Regions".
Are you sure of that. I thought Tesla shied away from LiFeYPO4 due to the extra costs and availability of Yttrium. Instead they relay on the thermal management system and regular LiFePO4 batts from CATL. I know Ford has be talking about LiFeyPO4 cells for their EVs though.
Quoting: Steve_S Awwww, just waiting on a decent 4x4 E-Truck, with full 8' box and minimal techno-blingo junk...
Lordstown maybe? but they are having issues with delivery. Also I don't think they will sell to the general public as they are focusing on fleet. Other than that you might be SOL. Everyone wants the techno-blingo stuff these days. Heck, even our $22K (CAD) KIA Sportage ICE has a full "Infotainment" system.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2023 06:42pm
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Think Id like an EV mini-pickup similar to my old, basic 1972 Datsun 4cyl/4spd with a range of 300mi or more; was that ever spartan! It was very effective and economical both in purchase price and upkeep. Id hope to just plug it into the cabin which would maybe idle along on an on site small bat-bank in our absence.
At the cost of technology and inflation I doubt we could afford the truck.......
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travellerw
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2023 12:04am
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Quoting: gcrank1 Id hope to just plug it into the cabin which would maybe idle along on an on site small bat-bank in our absence.
This is something I have been mulling, but I actually did the math for someone last week. People just don't realize how much power an EV takes and that a solar system robust enough is pretty large.
I won't lay out all the numbers, but here is some food for thought.
A Tesla M3 has a 68Kwh battery pack (yes 68,000Wh), and its one of the smallest packs in the industry. 8 6V FLA batteries is like %10 of the power in a Tesla M3 pack.
Charging a car on a 15A plug gets 6km (3.75 miles) of range per hour of charging. The charger will draw 1300W constantly until the car it fully charged. (Yes, its like running a toaster oven on full for hours on end). Most cars can be limited down to 875W (8A), but this is the lowest setting. This will get you 3km (1.86 miles) of range per hour of charging.
Now I won't get into the 220V stuff.. but as you can see you need a literal $hitton of power to charge an EV.
Like I said, I have been mulling building a system to charge, but it just doesn't make sense. 1000s for solar to just trickle charge, or I could go 1 mile to my neighbors utility barn and pay him $1 to fully charge on the welding outlet he installed there.
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