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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 10:01am - Edited by: zorro
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So I am looking at options for obtaining internet access at the cabin (no cable, etc anywhere near the cabin)
I do not need a broadcast/TV signal as I don’t have a TV at the cabin – but I NEED an internet service as I can now work from home if required…………..but need internet
Need to be able to send/receive emails and the occasional zoom meeting
I know that Starlink looks like a good option, but think I have too many trees around me to make that a viable option – I may purchase the system come the spring and try it out – they have a 30 day money back guarantee
Another option I have been watching a few videos on is cellular data – not using your cell phone, but a router/modem with a data card slot (assuming the router does not use a huge amount of power – need to check that)
Essentially, purchase a cellular data plan (on a sim card with AT&T, Verizon, etc) and the plug that into the back of the router
Can then add some external antennas to hopefully increase the service/signal
Router;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09NDDH6S8/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_3?smid=A28ACUCUGPG KAB&psc=1
External antenna;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09VVWMS2F/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=AEP2WY1PO6E Q1&psc=1
Hardware is more expensive than Starlink, but if it works, it would be a great solution for me
But again, not sure if the trees will block this or if a cellular signal is more forgiving than having a clear satellite view
Anyone tried this option at all?
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 10:17am
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This is my current solution at the cabin. Even better, my cell provider allows me to share the data between my main cell and the cabin device. I have 125GB of data that is shared between the 2.
I didn't bother with a fancy router and initially just used a spare cell phone with hot spot turned on. It worked fine but had some drawbacks (main one being the battery and charging in the cold). I have now switched to a used MIFI device I bought off Facebook marketplace.
I often work from the cabin and do more then email, teams and zoom. It works flawlessly. We also leave everything running when we leave to provide service to our camera system. That allows us to check on the cabin and have some security while away.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 10:23am - Edited by: zorro
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My one issue - I cannot use a "hotspot" it needs to be a wifi connection...........or hardwired
Si I need a router/modem option
The reason is my company have locked down any access to hotspots due to security issues
Hotspot would be the simple solution, but I cannot use it - a pain in the ass!
The signal is also pretty ow at the cabin, which leaves me to think I may need the antennas - built in and the larger external antennas
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 11:08am
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I'm not sure how your computer would determine a "Hotspot". An Apple/Android WIFI hotspot looks no different than a standard WIFI router.
In any case, the MIFI device I have has 4 Ethernet ports on it that can also be plugged into.
I would also look into different providers. In Canada its law that they provide the location of all their towers. So I just did a search to find the provider with the closest tower and changed my service to that. My service went from crappy to 5G screaming fast.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 11:13am
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If you download the starlink app, you can use your phone to determine if starlink will work. May want to look into that....
I think tmobile has something that is similar to what you're looking for...I don't have any experience with it...
Good luck...
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 11:28am
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travellerw - you are 100% correct
I am working from home and using wifi
I just switched off wifi and tried using the hotspot on my cell phone - it worked with zero issues at all
So I am not sure what my employer has been telling me - but clearly the hotspot works!!
Also, I have an AT&T unlimited data plan on my cell phone, but think that is limited to 5/10meg for a hotspot - maybe that could be increased
Now my only issue is the AT&T service at the cabin is really poor
I presume i could get the MIFI device and move to Verizon (which has a good service at the cabin) and use that instead
This could be a great, cheap and easy solution for me
jsahara24
yep - I have the starlink app and it is that which is telling me my service will be impacted by the trees - and that is in winter - wait till the trees come back again in summer
So i think Starlink is likely a no go
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 11:42am
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Sounds like it, unless you could mount the dish to a pole and get it high up there....The service is pretty great if you can get signal, but if you can find a mobile provider that works it will likely be much cheaper....
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 12:02pm
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That is also something i looked at - actually looked at mounting it at the top of a high tree................would just need someone to climb up there!!
But in high winds, if the tree sways at all (thought its a big tree!), then signal would be impacted i think
I may go the route from trevellerw and get a MIFI device (can return within 30 days) and take out a 1 month data plan to test it
Nothng to lose that way
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 12:08pm
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Quoting: zorro I may go the route from trevellerw and get a MIFI device (can return within 30 days) and take out a 1 month data plan to test it
So the trick up here is to buy a used MIFI device (all devices are unlocked here in Canada). Then go to your provider and add a "tablet" SIM card to your plan (costs $10/month). Then just put the SIM in your MIFI device. BOOM high speed shared internet for $10/month.
We never even come close to using up the 125GB I have shared with my cell. I'm sure if we streamed a ton we could, but we don't do that.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 12:32pm
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1800 feet elevation and trees at my place. No service in yet. Just a FYI on this subject. I had Verizon service cell phone and a friend had AT&T. On the mountain, I had 1 bar, he had 4 bars. I found the tower and it was an AT&T tower. So for some reason the Verizon service from an AT&T tower was bad. I switched to AT&T so my wife and I could stay in contact. I think there may be a cell tower locator web site. I did it the hard way using Google maps.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 12:53pm
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Yep - that is partof the issue
we are on an AT&T family plan and cant really change that.............no easily anyway
But the service is really poor
My buddy has Verizon and he has great service
Looking at I think
cellmapper.net
There are very few AT&T towers that I can see...............but i see plenty of Verizon towers
So I may need to get the MIFI device and a Verizon sim card - any pay the extra as I am not a current customer...............if that is even possible
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 01:58pm
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And/or see if T-Mobile's 5G coverage reaches your area. Will1e is doing that in his area.
I am working on the same issue. Cell signal is poor, which I could fix, but the local tower gets JAMMED on weekends and late in the week, and data throughput then is useless. Verizon installed a tower near me recently, but trying to avoid switching...
Starlink is out for me too due to trees, and other satellite is too much lag time for zoom stuff, I read.
Spectrum has a grant in my area to bring in cable or fiber, but could be 2028 before they complete that.
I'm in a bit of a hole, so fixed wireless is out of reach.
Looking likely I'll be going with local DSL provider...should be JUST enough speed to work from the cabin....gotta check with next door neighbor to see if actual speeds match advertised for uploads.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 02:17pm
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So this is supposedly coverage in my area
We currently have AT&T and I need to stand on my head, doing a handstand on top of the roof to get a decent signal........1 Bar!!
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 03:07pm
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Quoting: zorro We currently have AT&T and I need to stand on my head, doing a handstand on top of the roof to get a decent signal........1 Bar!!
I would do a test with Verizon and see if it will work.
My absolute last option would be to try and fix the AT&T service with hardware. External antenna have limited use due to the loss in cables. Antenna also really only work on incoming and not outgoing. Cell boosters "may" work but are darn expensive. So you can spend a ton chasing better service and still end up with better service that is still crappy.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 03:47pm
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What hardware do you mean for improving the signal - signal boosters?
Any they do seem to run from $200..........$1200 or more!
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 04:37pm
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Quoting: zorro What hardware do you mean for improving the signal - signal boosters?
Expensive routers with SIM slots, external antennas, boosters, ect. If there isn't good service then those items will have very little effect. Basically they improve service if you have good service, but won't fix a poor signal.
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 05:55pm
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We have a MiFi (Verizon Jetpack) which works pretty well at our cabin. We use it with inexpensive external antennas.
Verizon says it's $10/month plan is "unlimited" data and it is, theoretically... but after the first 2GB you're throttled to 600kbps, which is too slow to do much but checking email. But you can buy a 3rd party SIM card from these guys and it really is unlimited, they use either the Verizon or AT&T network depending on what works better in your area.
Your employer's concern is probably about a public hotspot, not a personal hotspot like a MiFi which is basically just a cell modem combined with a wifi router.
If you want something fancier you can get a Mofi and connect it to a standard wifi router, but it'll cost a lot more.
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scott100
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2023 07:59pm - Edited by: scott100
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If At&T wireless is working at your place, you can get a mifi device and run it off of Cricket wireless. Cricket is owned by AT&T and uses the same cell towers. They have a data only plan (called their simply data plan). The 50gb plan is $55 / month. We have done this in the summer months when we're away from home.
It looks like AT&T may now also have the same deal at the same price. The only difference I'm seeing between the 2 now is you can take the cricket service to Canada and Mexico (important for us) but the AT&T plan is domestic US only.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 09:39am
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Thanks guys
I went to a few Verizon and AT&T stores over the weekend
They all confirmed that if my signal is currently low, then their hotspot devices/jetpacks, etc would not make any difference in the signal I am getting
So looks like I need to get some form of router with boosters/antennas
I am looking at this model here
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09NDDH6S8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A28ACUCUGPGKA B&psc=1
I can also add up to 4 external antennas if required
AT&T can do a pay as you go monthly plan - $55 for 50gb
One question though - if i go this route, i think AT&T need the EID number of the device to activate it - not sure if the router will have that or not?
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 12:31pm
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Based on my experience you are chasing a pot of leprechaun gold. Living on a boat for 5 years and getting my internet from 3G, 4G, 5G I have done this dance.
The key thing to understand is that we are talking about such low power that "external" antenna will lower your signal if the wire to them is much over 2ft. There will be more loss in the wire, than gain from the antenna. Think of long range WIFI devices. The Antenna and the device are directly attached to eliminate those losses.
You must keep the antenna and device as close as possible. In our case, I abandoned all the fancy routers and such. I just bought a good MIFI device and a Pelican case. I would hoist the MIFI device in the pelican case up our mast when I needed to boost my service. The pelican case is pretty much transparent to both WIFI and cell signals. I was able to get service in bays with absolutely nothing at water level, from towers MILES away.
If I was you. I would do a site survey to figure out which provider has the strongest signal. Then buy a MIFI device WITH Cat5/6 network port. Put that device as high up as you can(in a weatherproof box on a mast attached to the roof as an example) and run an Cat5/6 cable down to a location inside . Then use a standard WIFI router at the inside location in bridge mode (basically MIFI device plugged into a LAN port, DHCP service disabled). Pretty confident that would provide you with solid internet and keep the costs of hardware down.
That is just my advice after shelling out literally 1000s of dollars for hardware over those 5 years. It took us 3 years to discover the MIFI hoist trick.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 12:34pm
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Another suggestion. Search the RV forums for internet options. They are always up on the latest hardware and which services work best.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 01:02pm
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Thanks for the suggestion on the RV forums - sounds like a good idea
In terms of the MIFI device - both AT&T and Verizon suggested that as the signal is currently low (1 bar or so), the MIFI device would not help??
But clearly i never suggested raising it up on a mast
Maybe also worth a try
The router above has a 30 day return, so even if it didnt work nothing lost really
Only question is how to get a sim card activated for it
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 03:46pm
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As NateR said, i'm running T-Mobile setup at my place. Flat $50 a month and is far far better than my cell (Verizon) was ever getting me. I've got plenty of juice for anyone that visits, also for streaming on the Roku, running all the cameras, etc. The nice thing about that T-Mobile unit is you can travel with it...i don't think they want you knowing it, but it's what a lot of RV'ers and folks who are doing the #vanlife are using.
My cabin is in the woods with no clearings really except for the roads. The signal is consistent all year as well, even full leaf out.
If you want more info, let me know.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 05:15pm
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Quoting: zorro In terms of the MIFI device - both AT&T and Verizon suggested that as the signal is currently low (1 bar or so), the MIFI device would not help?? But clearly i never suggested raising it up on a mast Maybe also worth a try The router above has a 30 day return, so even if it didnt work nothing lost really Only question is how to get a sim card activated for it
External antennas won't help either. However the device you linked to may have some of the attached antennas in the cell spectrum. They would have a slightly higher dB gain than a standard antenna in a MIFI device. How much of a gain it would be.. *shrugs* probably small. But, remember dB gains don't help with outgoing packets unless you use a directional antenna pointed towards the tower. The biggest gain omni antenna does almost nothing to boost outgoing packets.
Height is key as it gets you above things and to a clear line of sight. Cell signals have decent penetration for trees, but buildings really affect it. However, terrain is a complete blockage. If there is any hills between you and the tower, you coverage will be poor.
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2023 06:59pm
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Quoting: zorro In terms of the MIFI device - both AT&T and Verizon suggested that as the signal is currently low (1 bar or so), the MIFI device would not help??
The advantage of a dedicated cell modem like the MiFi or others is that if you have one spot in or near your cabin where you have a decent signal (the "stand on my head, doing a handstand on top of the roof" thing), then placing the MiFi (or its antennas) in that location means you may get a stable signal that is then rebroadcast as wifi to other devices in the cabin.
That's our situation, we can get a decent signal along the south wall of the cabin but it's marginal in the living room and useless on the porch on the north side. With the MiFi in the corner of the bedroom and the antennas on the ceiling where the signal is strongest we have wifi internet (and thus wifi calling) anywhere in the cabin.
But one other thing, depending on where you are in the hills, you may get a good signal from one carrier and nothing from another. Where we are, both Verizon and AT&T insist we should have service... but while Verizon works AT&T has no signal at all. Our neighbors less than a quarter mile away and just a little higher on the hill have AT&T and it works fine for them.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2023 08:08am
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Quoting: travellerw The key thing to understand is that we are talking about such low power that "external" antenna will lower your signal if the wire to them is much over 2ft. There will be more loss in the wire, than gain from the antenna. Think of long range WIFI devices. The Antenna and the device are directly attached to eliminate those losses.
I've been following along here, and appreciate the great advice from all!
travellerw - did you try using low-loss cable? I see some companies selling external antennas recommend the use of LMR200 cable or equivalent. The local antenna company offers this cable in 30 ft lengths, just wondering if cable loss in this length would negate the signal boost due to antenna also.
I was originally thinking to put out an external antenna and run this low-loss cable, but now you have me thinking of hoisting a Pelican case up a 100 ft pine tree just outside the back door!
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2023 09:54am - Edited by: zorro
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Thanks again guys
So I have been browsing some of the RV forums
Looks like the majority now opt for Starlink - easy and convenient - additionally, with the RV, they can generally park in spots not obstructed by trees
Some still use MIFI options, but a lot have moved to Starlink, which provides a specific "roaming" package as well
So for me, it looks like Verizon has the better signal - 2 camp buddies have verizon cells and they get a real good signal around their and my camp
I have AT&T and get at most 1 bar and that is in only a couple of small areas
I will not be back to camp till March/April time
My thoughts.........and nether option may work, is to try;
1 - the router modem with 4 x external antennas - cost is around $800 plus data package
Still not sure where I can get a data sim activated for this type of modem - dont think verizon or AT&T offer that (will need to check)
But I have seen Youtube videos of guys getting this to work pretty well - again, depends on the surrounding environment, trees, hills, distance to towers, etc
The full kit can be returned within 30 days for a full refund - so no risk other than the cost of 1 months data
2 - If that does not work, then I may need to look at hoisting the MIFI device up a tree or high up on the roof and run the cable to a wifi modem inside - again, the MIFI device can be returned within 30 days
WILLIE
Can you give me more info on what you are doing/using to get a good signal please?
Thanks again guys
Oh - never knew about the low loss cable, if that would help in any way?
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2023 05:54pm - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: rpe travellerw - did you try using low-loss cable? I see some companies selling external antennas recommend the use of LMR200 cable or equivalent. The local antenna company offers this cable in 30 ft lengths, just wondering if cable loss in this length would negate the signal boost due to antenna also.
We tried LMR400 as its what we used on our VHF radio. We had it laying around, but damn it sucks to work with. Really thick and not very flexible.
It helps, but still has a length limit. Its been a very long time, but I used a website that calculated the loss over the cable. I can't seem to find it anymore.
I remember that about 10 meters was the max even with LMR400 for 4G. I think that is just over 30ft. So not very long . 5G is even worse as it uses higher frequency and is more subject to cable loses. I don't think you could go over 5 meters.
Really the key is to keep the radio and the antenna as close as possible with the shortest cable. Then run CAT 5/6 to provide the data down (with power over ethernet powering the radio in an ideal situation).
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2023 06:39pm
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One more thing.. All above distances were with LMR400. If you are using lesser cable then its shorter. With standard coax (195 something.. I think), its like 4 to 5 ft before the losses are greater than the gains from a 11dB antenna.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2023 09:09am
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travellerw - thanks, great info. I wasn't aware just how critical short cable is between antenna and device. Did you play at all with two antennas, one for transmit and one for receive? I've been reading that some modems have provision for separate antennas albeit not well documented. I read in one place that the transmit and receive antenna should be oriented in opposite planes for best results.
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