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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2023 03:03pm
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Hello all! Hope everyone had an amazing holiday season with family and friends. I have not posted in a while but I continue to read the great information here. I am just wondering if any members have used or looked into the new portable solar generators that seem to be all over the internet. In particular the Ecoflow, Bluetti or Jackery to name a few of the brands. They range in sizes, can be joined together to increase capacity, numerous ways to charge them, including solar. They have the battery and inverter all in one. On the surface they seem like a good product and would be very convenient. I'm just wondering if anyone has real life experience with a system and their thoughts.
Thanks in advance!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2023 09:52pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Ive looked at a bunch of them online and read a fair bit on 'diysolarforum.com'.
Imo, calling them a 'solar generator' is a misnomer; they are a battery power pack. That doesnt sound sexy though, does it.
Most are not LFP batteries last I knew, though that looked to be changing as LFP is currently the best chemistry for safety and number of recharges.
The simplicity of use and hook-up is attractive, as is a nice case all inclusive, and could be handy for small scale.
If I am understanding correctly the inverters used in them are too large a capacity power hogs, cheap high freq. with a high idle consumption, that is my big objection. They will eat up most of the available amp-hours running themselves over 24hrs. even if you are only running a few LED lights and a fan or radio.
Ive basically made my own (and instructions to do so are on that 'diysolar' site) with a 100Ah LFP battery, a 300W PSW inverter with dual 120vac outlets and USB port.
I can hook my solar panels via the charge controller up at will and/or use a battery to battery (DC2DC) charge unit off the car or a generator or grid powered smart battery charger.
Lots more power available, little lost power to my small inverter and I can upgrade any component easily.
Yet, I'll admit, for 'small scale' (micro-mini?) cabin, tenting, low draw overnight or two an All In One unit could be handy. Just dont expect it to run too long or power too much.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2023 06:04am
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I had an ecoflow river for about 15 days. It died over night running a small fan that it should have ran for many many hours longer than its screen said. I then tried to charge it via solar and that failed. After that it took being plugged into 120v for 30hrs before it would even turn on. I returned it for a refund.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2023 10:01am
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I have 2 smaller 240wh units (cheap chinese off brand). We use them every time we go out to the cabin. We run a ceiling fan on medium speed and a 120V 2W LED night light. They last about 6 hours each (so perfect for a standard weekend).
I would love a bigger 1000wh unit, but I have the same concern that gcrank1 mentioned. However, I think the higher end units (Bluetti, Ecoflow, ect) don't suffer from that issue. I'm just too cheap to shell out the dough for a high end unit.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2023 10:35am
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Doing a realistic 'energy audit' is necessary to not end up with too small a unit (I dont recall anyone ever complaining they bought too 'large' a unit).
For instance, over 24hrs a steady draw of only 2.5amp/30W @ 12v nominal will use up 60Ah/720W, a 5a draw double that at 120Ah/1440W. That 5a draw with no accounting for 85% unit efficiency will use up a 100Ah battery (LFP you can easily use 80% and more, but 80 is a good number) in Less Than 20hrs.
That said, ime, I use most elec.at evening, generally a fan most of the time when there (to mix the air in heating season and move air for cooling/ventilation in hot season, LED lights as needed (9W@=60W incand?), usually no more than 2 at a time, often just one. Sometimes we watch a VHS movie on the old tv/vcr unit so thats 2 hrs of the 'big draw' along with the other stuff. We can run like that for about a week with no recharge daily (then I swap batteries).
If I try to run the little absorption fridge at 6.5a I suck a battery down Way To Fast. So we happily use a Yeti clone ice chest instead.
Point: It is easier and way cheaper to conserve energy than 'generate' it.
If I want to have the ability to run up to 10a (120W) draw an hour I have to have HUGE (read-expensive) storage and recharge capacity. A little 'solar generator' box, especially if it has a way oversize inverter to power way too much load than the internal battery can handle, will run out of beans quickly.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2023 01:29pm
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Virtually all of these grew out of Crowdfunding which in itself is not a bad thing as it gets products to market quicker & with fewer burdens. The problem is the initial versions tend to be buggier and require refinements while using the crowdfunding buyers as technically Beta Testers. So avoid new versions and new products until they are debugged and mature... this seems to take 3 versions of product to get to that point.
Many of the "matured" products are actually pretty darn good but NOT ALL ! There have been some doozies... so do Due Diligence & research the short list of products you are considering.
Also, take the time to "understand the tech" being presented. For instance know the difference between High Frequency vs Low Frequency inversion LINK: https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/knowledge/high-vs-low-frequency-inverters/inversion -methods-explained-high-frequency-vs-low the types of battery cells being used as some perform better in Hot temps while others perform better in cooler temps and others that will not work below freezing temps. Currently the safest Lithium Cells being used are LFP (LiFePo4) and the majority of these systems are not using Prismatic Cells but rather Cylindrical LFP due to the structural strength given the use cases.
Brand Names are no guarantee as to quality and naming has been a trick to pull people in. There are products out there that appear to have a Brand Name (ie Energizer) but have NOTHING to do with Energizer Batteries... Some companies play Fast & Loose with their "labeling" and these are not exclusive to any Nation either... some pretty shady stuff popped out of Europe recently. So VERIFY that it is a Genuine Brand Product.
As these have gained in popularity, many companies are jumping into this type of portable energy tech and some big names are showing up like Generac. Now also there are companies like Greenworks who are connecting the dots across product lines, SEE HERE: https://electrek.co/2023/01/04/greenworks-unveils-electric-bikes-home-batteries-vacuu ms/
2023 is already seeing some Big Players buyout existing brand/labels and folding them into their own product lines. I expect that a LOT of this will happen as this market space is expanding exponentially.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2023 07:05pm
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Oh wow.. I think delving into low vs high frequency is peeling the onion a little too much. Low frequency inverters are usually reserved to industrial use due to the size and weight. I know one low frequency inverter that is 30kg for a 2000W unit. Not always, but low frequency inverters usually have a higher stand-by current. Frankly they just aren't well suited for a power station application.
There is nothing wrong with a high frequency inverter that is properly designed. Many properly designed ones have low standby draws (Victron, Mastervolt as an examples).
Its important to look at the Stand-by (or sleep) current of any unit you choose. If they don't list that spec, then I would skip that unit. I have actually been doing some research after first posting here. I was surprised that one of the Bluetti units draws like 20W just sitting idle and its only a 200Wh unit. So in 10 hours it kills the battery all by itself.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2023 08:04pm
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Yep, you got it, the self consumption is a result of using cheap, poorly engineered and/or poorly constructed inverters (that just happen to be HF). If they used high quality inverters they would miss the price point and be so expensive people wouldnt buy in any quantity.
Btw, for the best use of available amp-hours of a battery pack use 12v stuff, NO conversion (inverter draw). USB ports can be powered off the bat (my LFP has a port on it). Idk if those AIO's have to be switched on to also activate the 12v and USB ports; if so that 120vac inverter would be running for no good purpose if you were not needing 120.
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skootamattaschmidty
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2023 04:36pm
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This is all great information! Thanks for the feedback. Just been seeing a lot of them out there lately and thought they sure seem easy but definitely come with a price.
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KelVarnsen
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 10:15am
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I have a couple of "solar generators" from Ecoflow. I have a River and Delta. I bought them both through their initial Kickstarter campaign, so I got a great deal on them. They are too pricey for me now. Both products are great.
The Delta is a beast. It can run power tools easily. I've run my angle grinder, electric pole saw, etc. with no problems. I plug my cabin directly into the Delta and can run it for a couple of days, although we have very little draw. The reason that I bought it is because of the rapid recharge speed. I can run the battery to 20% and then I fire up my generator and recharge it to 100% in an hour or so. It also has the ability to plug a solar panel right into the unit but I haven't tried it yet.
Typically we get 2-3 days out of our Delta then run the generator for an hour and get another 2-3 days. It's the reason that I haven't finished my permanent solar set up yet.
My Delta did fail last year with some unknown error. One of the Kickstarter perks was that my unit has a lifetime warranty on the battery. I don't think that the battery failed but some other component. I called support and explained the issue. I sent the old unit back and they sent me a brand new unit with no questions asked.
Overall Ecoflow products and support are very good. I know some of the other companies and products are a bit sketchier.
https://ca.ecoflow.com/pages/delta-solar-generators
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 10:31am
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Did you have to pay shipping back?
Either or both LFP battery?
Your use sounds like mine, and for the same reason my solar did not get redone, the recharge is FAST. Actually thinking of selling my complete 600w system now.....my location/orientation is not great for solar and the gen with an ac charger is sooo easy.
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KelVarnsen
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 12:57pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 Did you have to pay shipping back? Either or both LFP battery?
I did not pay for shipping for the faulty unit. They sent me a prepaid FedEx slip. I think all the Ecoflow products are Lithium, I'm not 100% sure of the chemistry.
I paid $699USD for the Delta 1300W in 2019. They go for $1399 now but are currently on for $999.
I see that Ecoflow has really expanded their product lines. They now sell solar kits, power kits, self heating batteries that can be charged down to -4F. Even a dual fuel (gasoline LPG) generator that you can connect to their other products.
Sorry if this seems like spam. It's not, I just have been very happy with their products and support.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 01:42pm
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No worries, Real World honest user feedback is what we want 
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safecastle
Member
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# Posted: 16 Mar 2023 03:15pm
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I believe that Ecoflow, Bluetti, and Pulsar are some of the leading brands in this space and their products have been well-reviewed by many. In particular, the Ecoflow Delta 1300 offers up to 1350Wh of power storage with multiple charging options including solar. The Bluetti AC200P is also capable of storing up 2000Wh and can charge devices directly via outlets or USB ports. Pulsar offers both large capacity models such as their Pulsar PG3500M as well as smaller portable versions like the Pulsar PG1202SA which includes flashlight capabilities too. so depending on your needs, it could be a great choice for you!
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2023 05:03pm
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I bought a Bluetti AC200 Max for our small cabin. Works amazing so far. Only a few months in, but it powers my chop saw, vaccum cleaner, AC mini fridge and other things. Definitely would recommend if you don't feel like figuring things out.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2023 07:41pm
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How long does it power just what devices?
How do you recharge it?
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2023 02:47pm
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I recharge it with 6x100 watt solar panels. It seems like I can power my devices without sun for about 3 or 4 days. Typically I wake up and the battery is at 75% and on a sunny day, I am up to 100% in a few hours and then running of of the solar panels for the whole day.
The biggest thing we power is a larger type mini fridge. It runs on less than 50 watt/hr. The rest is powering tools, laptops, phones, led lights, etc...
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2023 05:00pm
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Sounds like you have a nicely balanced use to recharge set up; well done!
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2023 07:09pm
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Thanks. I know it's a lot cheaper to go with making your own setup, but definitely was worth the while for our family. I love making ice from the sun
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Link44
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2023 12:09pm
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I bought a Bluetti last May. My cabin does not get good sun close so it was suggested that this might be a good option. We used it over the summer in the trailer to watch movies. A long weekend wouldnt usually make a big dent in the power, maybe 20%
This spring I have been using it to power the lights in the cabin while I work. 4 to 5 nine watt bulbs for 26hrs over a 4 day weekend and some holes with the jig saw. It showed 3 bars of 5 when we left, approximately 60% left. I think when the cabin is "done" it will work great for a long weekend with some light and a couple movies.
I take it home to charge it, have solar at home. We have a generator for large loads. I dont know if they still have this unit but this is the 1 I bought. Thanks to Travellerw for the great suggestion!
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jvgo
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 08:53am
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After reading through this thread, I decided to purchase the Bluetti AC180 Portable Power Station. It is 1,800W and promises 1,152Wh. Waiting on delivery from Bluetti to try it out. It was on sale and I got a 5% veterans discount.
My primary reason for buying it is to run a small mini fridge when not on generator power. Solar is not an option for me.
I currently power the cabin with a Honda EU 2200i gas generator. Typically, I run the generator somewhere around 8-10 hours per day consuming approximately 1 gallon of gas per day, always in ECO mode. I power a couple of LED lights, coffee maker, small microwave, small oscillating fan, radio, small TV and DVD player. Not all at once, of course. Occasionally, a power tool or leaf blower.
My small cabin is 12 x 24 feet with a loft. Heat in cold months with a wood burning stove. Haul in drinking water. Spring water is nearby, but tests positive for bacteria. I do use the spring water for showering with a battery powered Zodi portable shower from a 5 gal. bucket though. Cooking in summer is done on a small propane stove or outdoor fire.
What I lack is refrigeration. Right now I use a Yeti knock-off cooler with ice for food and a cheap Igloo cooler with ice for drinks. I spent 10 days at the cabin recently with daytime temps. reaching 80F or better. I had to run into the nearest town every other day or so to replenish ice. This was a real bother. Once at the cabin, I like to stay at the cabin for the duration of my time there.
My plan is to use the Bluetti to power a small mini fridge when not running the generator. The search is on now for an energy efficient small fridge. I would prefer a model with a small freezer section.
I have been using the formula of Total Watt Hrs X 0.90 X 0.85/ Watt consumption of mini fridge.(Assuming the Bluetti has an internal consumption rate of somewhere around 15 wh). If this formula is correct, a 60 watt mini fridge should be able to operate for about 14 hrs from the Bluetti with 1152 wh available.
Does this sound correct? Any recommendations on a mini fridge with a small freezer?
Thanks!!
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mojo43
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 09:01am
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I just bought a standard mini fridge from walmart and it runs under 50 watts/hr. You will lose some juice from the Bluetti from the inverter being on too. Mine loses around 15% over night. Why not just throw up a couple of solar panels and then you can run the fridge and never have to fire up the generator? Having a fridge really made our lives so much simpler. Soggy food no more!
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jvgo
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 10:04am
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I have too much forest canopy cover for solar to be a viable option. The only time I could get enough sunshine is in the winter months when the leaves are down. See attached cabin location pic from Google maps.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 01:47pm
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The refrigerator doesn't run nonstop, it will cycle on and off, so that should work to your benefit. If I was in your situation with your dense woods I would likely run the generator in the morning to power my coffee maker and charge up the battery, then run the entire place off the battery. Depending on usage you may be able to only run the generator for an hour or two per day as I think that unit will charge in an hour or so.....
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 04:22pm
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Yes, lith chemistries charge fast IF you max out the charger or the internal one is max for the battery.
My gen may or may not be used during a day for power tools, etc. but if it is the smart thing is to have it doing some bat recharge whenever it runs.
Every input amp counts!
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 04:54pm - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: Link44 Thanks to Travellerw for the great suggestion!
Thanks for the shoutout. Glad that its working for you.
Now as to the formula, I will post the formula I use when calculating for a fridge.
Running watts X 1.15 (%15 losses) X 24 (Hours) / 2 (%50 duty cycle on most fridges)
So for an example on a fridge that takes 50W while running.
50 X 1.15 = 57.5 X 24 = 1380 / 2 = 690
690Wh consumed during a 24 hour period. So the Bluetti you posted could almost run a 50W fridge for 2 days before being exhausted.
That unit has a 1 hour recharge time, so ya, you could run a gen early to make your coffee and toast. Then have silence all day and night. That run would also allow you to have lights without problems. Easily make a 2 day weekend and probably go home on Sunday with power left in the unit.
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mojo43
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2023 07:21pm
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Quoting: jvgo I have too much forest canopy cover for solar to be a viable option. The only time I could get enough sunshine is in the winter months when the leaves are down. See attached cabin location pic from Google maps.
Amazing! Must be so beautiful!
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jvgo
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2023 02:32pm
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Thank you mojo43, jsahara24, gcrank1, and travellerw for the valuable information you have provided.
I received the Bluetti AC180 Portable Power Station 1800 watt power station today. It arrived with a 63% charge. I updated the firmware via bluetooth and then charged it to full charge on grid house current. The charge only took 6 or 7 minutes.
As a test of the power station before heading up to the cabin, in my garage I have a 2.1 cubic foot mini fridge. It has been unplugged for several days so as to test start up from the Bluetti.
I plugged the mini fridge into the power station and the fridge fired right up. It fluctuated between 37 and 41 watts on the readout for a bit then settled in at 40 watts. The device readout says it should have power for 17.1 hours. This is better than expected! Please see the attached readout pic.
I think for the cabin that a little bigger mini fridge should be ok, maybe a 3.5 cubic foot or better.
Thanks again for your valuable input!!
This forum is a great resource!!!
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2023 02:41pm
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Quoting: jvgo The device readout says it should have power for 17.1 hours. This is better than expected! Please see the attached readout pic.
Remember, that once a fridge is down to temperature it will only run %50 of the time. So your 17.1 hour number will go up quite a bit!
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Houska
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2023 05:57am
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I have 3. A GoalZero 1000Wh from 2018, a GoalZero 200Wh from a few years ago, and a Bluetti 500Wh won in a draw less than a year ago.
They're good at what they do, just don't expect the world from them. They're batteries (these days, generally lithium but not LFP) + chargecontrollers + transformers(DC)/inverters(120VAC), not actual generators. You charge them up from grid power or using solar panels, sold separately. You have to do your math regarding capacity and peak power to see if they work for your needs. They're more expensive as kits than building your own, but convenient.
The older GoalZeros have lasted well (the 5 year old one is now limited to 95% capacity, not bad for weekly+ use over 5 years). No trouble so far with the Bluetti.
All of them excel at small-scale USB (5V) or 12V DC output, pre-wired, easy to turn on and off, plus occasional 120VAC needs. Super for portable power, both around the property but also if bringing up charged from home to cabin for the weekend is a use case for you. But the inverters drain a lot if left on, so not good for deliberate or accidental extended 120VAC use. Therefore probably not the right thing for 24/7 off grid power for full-time or seasonal use (though could be a complement - redundancy and portability is good!)
With the GZ ones, needed to upgrade to separate better charge controller (from GZ) for optimal charging from solar panels especially non-GZ ones. Not sure if that's still the case with newer ones or from different brands. There are a lot more choices now than 5 years ago!
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