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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2023 09:42pm
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We tested the water this weekend… I bought a cheap total dissolved solids tester. Our tap water in the twin cities was reading around 186 PPM. Our Reverse Osmosis lake water??? 2. 2 PPM after pumping out of lake. .Amazing.
I also improved the system this weekend with a 14 gallon pressure tank. The problem with the system as is was that the r/o system requires a high PSI to operate…. minimum of 35 PSI. Most regular filter operate at 5-10 psi. The RV PUmp puts out 55. And the R/o process is slow.
So what would happen is the Pump would pressurize the line and then shut off when 55 psi reached. The R/o system would the run for a few seconds untill the pressure dropped below 35 and the then the pump would cycle again. It led to the pump pulsing every 20 seconds or so. It’d run for 5 seconds and then be off for 20. I added the 14 gallon pressure tank in between. Now the rv pump runs for about 15 minutes to fill the tank while at the same time feeding the R/O system. That 15 minute run time will fill the pressure tank and the r/o 3 gallon reservoir tank. If I run the pump during the day to fill the tank, the. I don’t have any battery usage.
I think this should be the last addition necessary. We’ll see…
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2023 07:00pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Well having used the water for 3 months. I pulled everything out for the winter- winter is coming. Lol
We decided The reverse osmosis system is not going be the solution. It worked ok, but couldn’t keep up with the demand- 3 kids plus us drinking cooking and dishes we need about 5 gallons per day. We ended up having to pump a lot- and if the r/o tank wasn’t full, it’d take 5 minutes or so to get a pint of water.
I think the high pressure demands of the R/O were the main problem. When you have a constant pressure it works great but when you have to pump to create pressure it just didn’t work out.
Other problem was The loss with wastewater ended up being about 4:1 I figure. Meaning we had to pump 5 gallons to drink one. My 60 gallon tank had to be pumped full every weekend.
Also- when the rv pump was on it was on either constantly, or it would cycle every 20 seconds whenever the pressure dropped as water was being worked through the R/O system.
Back to the drawing board.
2 options right now for me.
1. A different non-r/0 filter. I found one that gets down to 1 micron (sufficient for cysts and 99.9% of everything else including bacteria). This is a 10 psi system- so I anticipate this would work as an on demand filter where the rv pump would just kick in when necessary. Unsure of flow rate though. Less than 1gpm. That’s not terrible, and would work if it actually works out like it’s supposed to but am hesitant at the moment.
2. We buy a Berkey style filter. Then we just use the rv pump to fill up the reservoir- 3-4 gallons at a time. Basically we just flip a switch to turn the pump on and off when the berkey need to be refilled. I do like this idea, but I believe the berkey is slow to filter (1 gallon per hour). This isn’t a problem as long as the reservoir is full but uncertain if this will cause problems when we don’t watch it close enough. It’s also crazy expensive- I see knockoffs on Amazon though.
Regardless- more research is needed.
I did reinstal the R/O at home now and it’s great!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2023 07:08pm
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See online diy ss containers from a big-box store with the Berkey filters installed; waayyy cheaper, just as effective from what I saw last winter.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2023 08:45pm
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The non-R/O filter - is this filter filtering the main line, for the entire household? Or just one point of use, like a sink? 1 GPM or less is not a high flow rate at all. If it's filtering for the entire household, you'll want a filter that allows a higher flow rate.....which they make, just have to know what demands you have on your system. But, 3 GPM is a good minimum starting point.....
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2023 09:00pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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spencerin
For drinking water. There is no plumbing.
Ive yet to find a filter less than 1 micron absolute with a reasonable flow rate. Would you mind sharing the filter you’re referring to? That’d be helpful- I’ve been looking for alternatives to the r/o system.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2023 11:47pm
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I'm not entirely following - aren't you pumping water from a lake into a cabin? If so, then is it just to use at one point of use (a sink) right now? If so, that's your main line, even if it's just connected to a sink. What diameter piping are you using? And is it pex?
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razmichael
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2023 07:43am - Edited by: razmichael
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"2. We buy a Berkey style filter."
As mentioned, just buy the filters and DIY with buckets (food safe). The more filters the faster the flow (we use four).
We pump from the lake into a rain barrel every few days depending on use and chlorinate in the barrel. An RV pump puts this through the cold line and through the hot water heater (eccotemp L5) for dishes, general washing and shower. I use micro switches on the taps to turn on the pump rather than just pressure sensor.
For the filter, a line runs to the top bucket with a shut off. Turn the cold tap on slightly (enough to start the pump but not actually open the tap) then open the valve to the bucket to fill it. Obviously, there are lots of ways to do this. The filtered water once it collects in the lower bucket is accessed by a foot pump to a separate faucet for drinking (I think is is a Whale marine pump). It all works well for our usage pattern. It does require you to keep track of the level of drinking water as it will take a while to start to refill if the top and bottom is empty but with four filters, it is not too bad. Given the water is chlorinated, the filters are a safety thing plus they clean up the taste and anything that is not impacted by chlorine. This has been our system for 6 or 7 years.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2023 05:39pm
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If you do a Google search for "1 micron water filter", you should right away see filters that allow higher GPMs. Typically these in-line filers impact pressure, but it's not much, like a 2 PSI reduction. Seems like you could find what you're looking for.
You did reference a "10 psi system". What system do you have that's 10 psi?
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2023 07:56pm
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I got a Berkey from my father in law. We dip water from our creek. Works fast enough for two people with just 2 filters in it- but I also fill gallon jugs to keep extra on hand.
I did do two mods to it:
A stand: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BVFJ3Y5Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF 8&psc=1
And a Sight Spigot to tell when we need to add water: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08R5S8JJT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF 8&psc=1
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2023 12:39pm
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razmichael
Thanks- love the idea of the homemade berkey and improved volume vs a berkey.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2023 12:41pm
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mj1angier
How long to fill the reservoir? Is the 1 hr per gallon pretty accurate?
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redwolfguild
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2023 02:14pm
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Grizzlyman - My experience with drinking water is that it was just way to easy to filter water with a gravity filter, and I filled 3-gallon water bottles. I make 4 bottles at a time. Fill the bag, let it filter, and add more water till the bottle is full. Cap it and use it when needed. Some of those DIY bucket filters would work even better as you wouldn't have to keep filling the bag. My problem is space is tight and I don't want to store the buckets and my bag filter rolls up really nice and flat. I use a table top water dispenser and just put the 3-gallon bottle on when needed. I use the unfiltered water (from a open spring) for washing, toilet flushing, showering, etc. I tried all the inline filters just to find I had to remove them every winter as they would freeze and break. The prefilter was also getting clogged.
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 09:55pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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We decided on the “berkey†style filter. I actually went with Doulton over berkey. For price reasons and functionality reasons. I guess at the end of the day the filters are more or less interchangeable but doulton specifically has the ultrasterasyl ceramic filters that will filter out pretty much everything…. And half the price of the berkey. I bought the 3+ gallon system. 4 filters for max flow. Also, not that it matters- but the history of doulton is kind of cool.
We’ve used it last 2 weekends with a lot of success. It worked great for us. I had winterized our system so I just carried up lake water and dumped in.
I did plumb it so that the pump simply just directly refills the top canister via a copper pipe.
I think a spigot on a copper pipe is a cool way to do this… and the spigot can also be used to fill cleaning or other water use. . We’ll see. Happy with the system for now. Here’s what it looks like.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 10:37pm
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Nice!
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 10:49pm - Edited by: ICC
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Will the filters retain sufficient moisture to cause a problem when temperature drops below freezing?
-Izzy
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2023 10:56pm
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ICC
Possibly but I removed and brought them back home 
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 08:03am
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Quoting: ICC Will the filters retain sufficient moisture to cause a problem when temperature drops below freezing? -Izzy
I believe its recommended to not let them freeze. That is one of the downsides, but if bringing them home isnt' a big deal then its not much of an issue.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 09:31am
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Ive wondered about the potential for mold growth in them and what the optimum storage temp is once used?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 10:02am
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I'm late to the game, and not sure how our filter solution would work with lake water. Our spring water is pretty good but does have high mineral content and occasionally total coliform.
We use THIS filter and have been so impressed with the quality of the water after filtering we are going to get one for the AZ house. Supposed to be 0.5 micron (says "up to") and 99.99% of chlorine and other substances. I think it does as our water has a metallic taste without filtering. With this filter it taste great.... more importantly makes good coffee!
Our only concern is turbidity in the spring might shorten the life of the filter. We will take the filter out and refrigerate it in AZ for the winter as I'm sure it would freeze and damage it. I would definitely recommend this if you have water taste issues.
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 10:08am - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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I’ll have to do some more research. I would think freezing once water is completely removed would be a good thing actually. It’s just carbon and ceramic in these things so without water I can’t see the harm but I really don’t know.
I know that many of the camping water filters used to be recommended to be stored in the freezer…
I’m certainly not a biologist… but if the water inside is microbe free and there isn’t any food for mold to grow… wouldn’t it be almost completely sterile?
When reusing after storage…they do recommend that you filter and throw out the first few liters after storage.
Maybe someone smart can chime in. Lol
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FishHog
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 11:41am
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I think freezing them when dry is absolutely fine, its freezing if they still have water that can expand and change the pour size of your filter allowing larger stuff to pass through.
I have one i use at the cottage, but I use it at the beginning of my winter trips, then hang the filter near the woodstove for the rest of the week to make sure its dry, as it will freeze shortly after we leave.
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2023 02:19pm
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FishHog
Great idea to hang them. I’ve had them sitting on a counter but the don’t seem to be drying all that much. I’ll give that a try.
I also emailed doulton to see what they say…
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2023 07:51pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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This was Doultons response.
“We recommend the filters to be left out to dry but avoid direct sunlight. Clean their surface gently and once dried, store back in the original packaging if still available.
Do not store in a fridge / freezer.â€
The original packaging was loose fitting bubble wrap and a box- not airtight.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2023 07:58am
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interesting, so just leaving them at the cottage to freeze probably isn't a good idea. But I'm guessing that is because they might not be completely dry
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2024 11:44pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Thought I’d post another update. We opened up the cabin this weekend. It’s cold, but no more freezing in sight. MAYBE it might dip below 32 but not much and not for long so should be fine. We’re out of the woods as they say.
Last fall I had soldered copper exterior lines under the cabin and along the beams as well as replacing all the vinyl tubing with braided tubing where tubing was necessary…but I hadn’t used them since this was all done after freeze in the fall.
So I put the water lines back in the lake, reattached foot valves, reprimed the lines and the jet pump fired right up. Filled up the 60 gallon tank in just a few minutes at the top of the bluff. I reattached everything else with the shur-Flo pump and pre-filter and flipped on the Rv pump.
It Ran for a few seconds as it pumped the water out of the tank and pressurized the lines.. then stopped just like it should.
I went in the cabin and opened up the spigot and the rv pump kicked in and ran and delivered a nice flow to fill the filter reservoir. Closed the spigot and then pump stopped. Awesome. This is the way it was supposed to work. We used about 10 gallons this weekend and without the r/o system and no waste water we still have 50 left. I won’t have to pump from the lake very often at all- maybe once a month.
I won’t be trying my 14 galllon pressure tank back in the line here as there’s no point. The rv pump runs for so little it won’t draw much power. The cycling it was always doing previously was due to the r/o system and the pressure tank. This works much better. And the fact that it wasn’t running at all when spigot was closed means we have no leaks.
I did plumb a hose spigot on the outside of the cabin so I can get exterior water as needed as well.
I’m happy with it and this should be a permanent solution!
Exterior pics are of the system- shur-Flo pump, coarse 15 micron filter, and copper I ran along the beam and underneath the Cabin to the other side. You can also see the exterior spigot. The pics aren’t the best but they’re what I have.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2024 06:22am
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Isn’t it nice when things work as they should. My system was equally uneventful when I started it up last week
That’s one thing I like about those pumps. You will always know if you have a leak. Even a drip will cause the pump to run for a second every couple hours so you know you have to hunt down a small drip
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2024 08:21am
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Time for a Happy Dance
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