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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2023 14:30 - Edited by: rachelsdad
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I just purchased a nice clean IBC tote from the local Bud brewery.
Anyone have a good source for top and bottom caps with fittings I can attach water line/hoses to?
Thanks
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FishHog
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2023 15:50
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usually the bottom is a camlock fitting 1.5". Should be able to find a camlock to hose fitting, or get a threaded camlock (male end, to threaded), go to the hardware and since the threaded fittings down to whatever size of hose you are planning to use.
Should have come with a top cap, if not you should be able to find a used one.
Don't forget to keep the top cap lose so it vents or you will suck in your tote
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2023 05:29 - Edited by: rachelsdad
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That last line was one of the best bits of advice ever!!!
I would have not thought of thatl
Thanks,....boy that would have been bad
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2023 14:39
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Ok. Putting plans in place for springtime.
One thing I am still not clear on is the treating of water in the tank. This will be held in a 55 gallon or so tank from a fairly pristine lake in N Minn. tank will be under the deck and out of sun. ( and it will be a black or green tank).
It will then push through a sediment filter folllowed by a filter for giardia.
Is it necessary to treat a 55 gallon tank of water if it will get pushed through a filter? If so- what’s the best way to do so? Does it affect taste?
Thanks.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2023 15:30 - Edited by: Nobadays
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If you are pumping from a lake I would recommend chlorination. If done correctly there will be little or no taste/smell. The attached chart is for 1ppm or 5ppm. I have always strive for ~3ppm.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2023 18:59
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The FDA web site also has a chart for putting bleach in water for potable water.
How ever if you start with a new barrel and shock the complete system (with bleach) then dump it and fill with a proper filter it should be totally fine.
Can you post the link to your filter? Really the only one I know of that's safe to use with almost any water is a ceramic style filter.
You can run a charcoal filter after the barrel to improve the taste.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2023 20:06
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No filter yet…
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spencerin
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2023 18:57
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I would treat it, yes. Filters vary in size by microns, so what you get may not filter everything out. For example, viruses are smaller than bacteria - a filter can remove bacteria but allow a virus to pass by.
With a 55g drum, the easiest thing to do would be to add bleach like suggested.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2023 19:11
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Quoting: spencerin a filter can remove bacteria but allow a virus to pass by
UV lights kill viruses. They sell them for water systems. I have one on my house. I believe they kill bacteria also.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2023 16:57 - Edited by: rachelsdad
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UV lights kill viruses. They sell them for water systems. I have one on my house. I believe they kill bacteria also.
This is true. In fact the lake my place is located on just converted it's water treatment system to UV. I used a Steripen for a bit while backpacking but too fragile.
Hmmmm how much draw do they have for off grid use??
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Brettny
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2023 08:18
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Quoting: rachelsdad Hmmmm how much draw do they have for off grid use?
They make them in all different voltages..even 12vdc. Not sure how much they use but would be easy to figure out. My house is grid connected.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 14 Mar 2023 10:42
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Think the bulbs are a different spectrum(?) fluorescent, so should be pretty efficient?
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2023 07:56
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Although UV water purification systems can work really well, there are a number of factors that you need to consider, especially for off-grid:
-They need to operate along with a filtration system as sediment and even minerals will "shadow" the bad stuff.
-Standard mercury bulbs are designed to be on 24/7 as the bulb needs to warm up. I was looking at a 12V in-line system that used 40 watts which is not bad until you realize that it is running 24/7.
-I have no experience with the newer LED UV systems that do not need to warm and designed to would work great in an on-demand system although I suspect they are expensive - more research needed.
-Maintenance of the filters and the quartz sleeve are vital to keep them working properly (although many/most include an alarm to warn if the intensity is down).
-Bulbs have a limited lifespan and would likely need to be replaced yearly (and they are not cheap).
-There are different types of bulbs so make sure you get one that works against your likely threat, especially if dealing with Cryptosporidium and Giardia (need strong UV).
For me, I find chlorinating the lake water pumped into a tank and then filtering the drinking water through berkey filters (and used with a foot pump through a separate faucet) is simple and effective for our small system and use case - obviously everyones needs are different.
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Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2023 08:00 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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razmichael
Thanks the last paragraph of your reply is about where we are at... the only difference would be the possible addition of an RV pump based on recommendation here.
UV sounds interesting... but ain't happening... A lot more complexity than I'm looking for in my off-grid 12v Simple Solar Powered Cabin...
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Brettny
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2023 11:03
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My UV system is actualy quite simple and cheap to operate. I run a yarn style filter then a charcoal, then it runs through the UV light. I have only had one bulb blow out on me and it warned me when that happened. The bulbs are about $60 for 2 so not very expensive and a 2pack of each filter is $9-14.
But the light should be on (at least for my system) 24/7.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2023 10:09
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Update:
I will be installing water system this weekend
Diagram below of both the pump system and the treatment system. I spent some $$. Hope this will work. Thoughts?
Pump system:
1hp shallow well jet pump. Will be placed about 20’ above lake surface on top of bluff. Water drawn up by 1 1/4†black poly line with foot valve. Will also install hand pump right next to it to draw up water for easier priming. Pump will then push water up another 25-30’ to cabin site through 1†black poly tubing. . Total run involved from pump to cabin is ~150ft. Because of this I have to put a joint in (tubing is 100’) I will joint with a check valve mid run just to keep as much water in the system as possible. This will run into a 60 gallon norwesco water tank.
Treatment system:
Tank feeds 20-30 micron sediment filter. After filter, 12v 55psi rv pump. Then 3stage reverse osmosis filter. This feeds pressure tank which then feeds the faucet.
I think the sediment filter should be before the rv pump… is this correct?
What do you think. Will this work? What do I need to adjust?
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Brettny
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2023 10:56
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You didnt want to use something like a $130 submersible amazon well pump? No priming needed and you can even make the system self draining for those chilly nights.
I have a jet pump and they suck to prime..I couldn't imagine trying to prime 20' vertically of 1.25in line.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2023 14:27 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Brettny
Submersible pump not really an option due to location.water is 30’ deep near shore- and shoreline is a bluff. Would need to suspend pump somehow in water- doable I’m sure but seems like extra complication- Also max lift is limited on many submersibles.
Understand pump priming issues…
Also 60 gallon tank should hold enough water for 2 months or more- so should only need to pump a handful of times every year.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2023 20:29
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Jet pumps are a pain to prime. I even have a 3/4in port to fill mine with and ended up re working the system so water pressure is at the same level as my pump inlet.
Sumbmersable well pumps do have a limit on how much head pressure they can pump but even the smallest 120v 1/2hp pump will pump wall beyond your needs
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offgrididaho
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 11:51
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On the RV pump side, consider adding a switch to it, so you can have it off when you're gone, then no chance of flooding your house or running your system dry or burning up your pump. RV pumps are self priming, so if you make it easy to disconnect on the water supply side, it will be easy to run a little RV antifreeze through if you're concerned about freezing. Even if you don't put antifreeze through, it's easy enough to run most of the water out of the line once it's disconnected from the supply.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 12:06
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offgrididaho
Thanks. Good idea. I have the whole system on a disconnect at the battery, so when we’re gone we disconnect it… I’ll have to work the RV pump into that too.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2023 12:09
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Be prepared for a water drain down in your absence?
Seems everything I have with a longish line is like starting from scratch every visit....
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2023 12:50 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Update. I’ll get pics next weekend. Installed system this week. Filtration system works great. Drank lake water all week. Reverse osmosis produces crystal clear delicious drinking water- and the water out of the lake is so good!
Pump setup worked well- moved the pump site a little from my original plan and was able to find a ledge on the bluff face that can be easily accessed so I have only about 15’ of suction lift.
I installed a pitcher hand pump right next to my jet pump. I ran two water lines into the lake- one for my hand pump and one for my jet pump. I zip tied the 1 1/4†lines together and also zip tied them to to a piece of 8’ steel scrap conduit to keep them straight, keep them sunken, and keep them extended out into the lake instead of curling back toward shore. The lines are then pipe strapped to a few supporting pieces of lumber wedged between rocks on the the way down. It’s very secure.
Priming not an issue-took only a few minutes, and foot valves should hold water in the lines for next time. The pitcher pump works awesome for filling the jet pipe/priming. I fashioned a tube to fit over the pitcher pump so that it can be run directly into the jet pump for priming. No pouring required… and not a tight fit so no pressure issues when priming. Instead of a priming plug I installed a pvc ball valve than can be opened easily to prime.
So for priming I open the ball valve, insert tube connected to pitcher pump, hand pump water to fill pump/pipe and then remove tube and close ball valve.
I unfortunately did run into an issue with the pump and my generator. I mistakenly looked at the 220v amperage instead of the 110 amperage on the pump- dumb mistake to make. At 110v the pump needs more amperage than my generator can produce. It was able to lift the water the 15’ and the pump was able to get the water to about 35’ of the necessary 50’ for my tank until it had to start working harder and drew to much amperage for my generator to handle. Kept tripping… so no dice.
So it’s either a new pump or a new generator. 
I will replace the 1hp pump with a 3/4 hp pump and a different brand that draws only about 60% of the amperage of my current pump. It’s a $250 mistake… but it is what it is. I’ll sell the other pump so maybe I can at least make some back.
On the positive side, a much lower draw means I can run a longer extension cord down to the pump site and not have to move the generator as much.
We tested the filtration system by hauling up lake water in 5gallon bottles just to make sure the filtration system worked.
Rv pump worked well enough and quiet enough that’s it’s barely noticeable inside the cabin.
My other “concern†is that the reverse osmosis system does create a lot of waste water. I knew it would, but it’s about 1:3-4 drinkable to waste water… this means I’ll have to fill the tank more often, but should only be once every 2-3 weekends or so… I had originally planned on only pumping a couple of times a year… but not a bad price to pay all things considered. Pumping should be relatively easy and take about 25 minutes to fill tank based on my calcs. Also means the rv pump will run more- but for the quality of water it produces it is ok. We’ll see how it holds up.
I also did put relief valves in place in my system so easy drainage when winter comes. Everything should be easy to drain except the foot valves.. that’ll have to be removed but no big deal as I have to pull the lines out of the water anyways.
I’ll update again when I have the 3/4 pump installed next weekend and can actually put the entire system to use.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2023 20:51 - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Installed new pump this weekend. 3/4 hp pump works great and actually pumped way faster than I thought. Somewhere around 10 gallons a minute. I filled the 65 gallon tank in ~5 min!
I did move the lines slightly so one is a bit short. I’m going to splice it next time around but no big deal.
Everything works great and am making water. Few pics below of the pump site and water setup.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 17 Jul 2023 08:06
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Good stuff and thanks for the update. Glad your happy with your drinking water
How much power does the RO system use?
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jul 2023 08:43
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FishHog
No power. Water pressure. The rv pump supplies the pressure. 5amps on 12v. I’ve been running the pump during the day mainly to fill the 3 gallon pressure tank that comes with the kit. The tank is because the RO system is slower than ideal for water- so it stores it in the tank. I run the water mainly during the day so there is no drain on the battery (solar powered). Then the tank is full by night time… AND if it does need to be run at night, 5amp/hours isn’t going to do to much to the battery’s charge.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jul 2023 10:31
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What size generator are you useing?
I bet it feels really nice to have on demand water.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jul 2023 11:18
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Brettny
2350W Wen. It's been a great Generator- quiet, super portable, starts EVERY time and half the cost of the Honda. 2350 is the max "Surge" Wattage ( I believe thats the term)...and the normal usage wattage is 1900... so 16ish Amps give or take... But Its been run hard for the last 3 years and I know its not at 100%. I haven't measured or anything but my guess is it can handle about 14 Amps consistently right now....and the 1hp Pump was just too much.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jul 2023 19:07
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Thanks for the info. Might have to look into that
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2023 22:09
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Glad it worked out for you. Nice to have an unlimited supply for water, too!
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