|
| Author |
Message |
ketchgould
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 11:43am
Reply
In Northern Wisconsin, AFI 3000, I am going to install a sand point well. The well is 200 feet from the future cabin. Assuming I find water, I need to figure out how to keep the cast iron jet pump from freezing.
Do I plan the well location directly below where I would want to build a sauna or shed someday. This shed and sauna would be unheated.
or
Do I put the well wherever I want in the woods and dig down and build an insulated bunker below grade for the jet pump and then for the lines to run below frost depth to the cabin.
How deep would you dig the well bunker? How would you design it? ICF, just foam and pallets?
Thanks
Chris
|
|
jhp
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 12:00pm
Reply
I don't know of anyone in similar temperature zone who doesn't either keep their place heated or just winterize the well in the fall.
Even if you built a bunker 6' below grade for the pump, how are you going to keep the pipe coming above ground from freezing?
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 12:01pm
Reply
There are well regs on the WI state website. Easy to find and read through, I did it a year or so back.
It is legal for you to diy but you must get the permit before starting and follow all the regs. This is rather generous of the state, and the intent is protection of the groundwater, that is a good thing.
Always best to start thinking out a project with all the info you can 
|
|
ketchgould
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 12:57pm
Reply
The cabin will be heated, however it is 200 feet from the well. I will bury the water line from the well and pump to the cabin.
|
|
MJH
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 04:42pm
Reply
Quoting: ketchgould Do I put the well wherever I want in the woods and dig down and build an insulated bunker below grade for the jet pump and then for the lines to run below frost depth to the cabin.
I'm in the exact same spot right now (Northern wisconsin, about to drive the well, trying to sort it all out). I could be wrong, but I thought I read in the UDC the other day that you're no longer permitted to dig down below grade for your well.
The DNR web page has some great well resources (and a link to getting the permit, fyi): https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Wells/homeowners.html
|
|
MJH
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 04:44pm
Reply
Quoting: MJH I could be wrong, but I thought I read in the UDC the other day that you're no longer permitted to dig down below grade for your well.
And, of course, it's on that page that I linked above:
CAN I CONSTRUCT A WELL PIT?
The construction of a well pit, be it for a well, pump or pressure tank, was prohibited by the 1953 Wisconsin well code. Pits are usually poorly constructed, seldom looked at, subject to flooding and are often unsanitary.
Although pits are not recommended, the well code does contain an approval mechanism for a new well pit which requires a written approval from DNR prior to pit construction. Pit construction specifications are stringent and expensive, and must be met in all cases.
|
|
NorthRick
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 05:29pm
Reply
Easy, don't go with a jet pump, get a submersible pump. Then the pump will never freeze. If this is a part time cabin, install a drain back valve or some other method of clearing the water out of the lines where there is freeze potential.
Our house in Anchorage has a pitless device 10' down below ground surface on the well casing and the water line from the well to the house is at 10' deep until it comes under the heated house.
No problems with freezing.
|
|
MJH
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 05:48pm
Reply
Quoting: NorthRick Easy, don't go with a jet pump, get a submersible pump. Then the pump will never freeze. If this is a part time cabin, install a drain back valve or some other method of clearing the water out of the lines where there is freeze potential.
Question... because I'm new to this and trying to learn, but how do you do a submersible pump on a sand point well? I'd imagine the pump would have to be pretty close to the point. Wouldn't pounding in the well mess it up?
|
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 08:18pm
Reply
Have you dug down at all to see what type of soil you have? Unless its sand a driven well like you want to do wont work.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2022 09:28pm
Reply
If you research what is available for submersible pumps you will find the size casing you need to have for one to fit in.
From my trying to find a pump to fit my old 2 1/2" driven pipe about 2yrs ago I found little available and what was cost Big Money.
And if you find an affordable pump needs a 4" or bigger casing I suspect the casing section price and work of trying to drive that is beyond diy.
|
|
Nate R
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Jun 2022 08:44am
Reply
There are a few options for 2" pipe, but very limited...
https://www.amazon.com/SHYLIYU-Stainless-Submersible-Outlet-Industrial/dp/B087BY3MZ3
There's some expensive options, like a real brand name pump here: https://www.fondriest.com/grundfos-redi-flo2-submersible-pump.htm
There's some cheaper, plastic 12V ones: https://www.fondriest.com/proactive-super-twister-12v-plastic-pump.htm
I've wondered how well that would function as a batch pump for part time use...esp with the 400 hour motor life quoted... but might be an option worth trying.
I haven't attempted to pound a well on my property... water is at 40+ feet, and there's a layer of rockier gravel at about 25-28 feet down....Ive been tempted to rent a pounder and try sometime, but still would be an expensive attempt.... I was quoted 4 or 5K to put in a 4" drilled pipe (no pump for that price) a few years ago.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Jun 2022 10:26am
Reply
Nate, when I dropped for my static water level a couple years ago I hit at about 26ish', too deep for a shallow well pump. About a year ago I was curious and did it again and it was 33ish'.
And a pump needs to be at least 10' below static, maybe more with a small dia pipe because it doesnt have much volume.
The other thing is those pumps lose capacity the deeper they go; ie, the gpm at outlet drops for every foot down.
Since ours is an old well it should probably be capped, it would be only for utility if it tested Ok anyway and out rain barrel has been more than enough for utility for 2 years. Generally we have 2.5-5ish gal of potable from a tested artesian well en-route to the cabin; 2.5 on site and a fresh 2.5 quite often.
|
|
NorthRick
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Jun 2022 05:52pm
Reply
Quoting: MJH Question... because I'm new to this and trying to learn, but how do you do a submersible pump on a sand point well? I'd imagine the pump would have to be pretty close to the point. Wouldn't pounding in the well mess it up?
No, you install the pump after you are done pounding down the sand point. You buy one that fits inside the well casing and simply slide it down. However, to keep things from freezing, the water line needs to exit the well casing below your frost line. This requires digging down beside the casing to a depth below the frost line.
You can simply drill a hole in the casing and run your water line through it and then backfill so you don't have a permanent pit, but in order to replace the pump when it eventually fails you are going to have to dig that hole again. There is a device you can install in the hole in the casing called a Pitless Device (google it) that allows you to swap out a pump without digging.
Bottom line is, a good reliable, year around well does cost some money. Even if you do it yourself. If you just need it during warm weather - whole different story.
|
|
ketchgould
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Jun 2022 10:21am
Reply
I have a pipe 8’ in the ground. That took about an 90 minutes. There is just a small puddle in the bottom of the pipe now. I’m going to keep smashing next week. It looks like from the materials published by the state, the pump can be buried as long as there is a Tee and a section of the pipe extending a foot above the land.
I’m not going to worry about the pump until I have lots of perfect spring water.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Jun 2022 01:07pm
Reply
Not worrying about a pump might mean you limit your options of pump because of pipe size you drive in.
I sooo wish the prev owner and builder of my place had used like 4" pipe rather than 2 1/2".
Also be aware that a driven pipe can hit a rock and deviate off from straight down. Like mine  , that also cuts options.
|
|
|
