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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 01:59pm
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I like the mention of the buried wires in the first paragraph....brings back sore memories of 90+ feet of rocks and tree roots...and bending conduit to lay flat!
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 02:09pm
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Here was my ooops moment from last year.
Steve_S you mention AWG 2 v. AWG 2/0 in your system.
I can't for the life of me remember which I used. I'll pick up some for the next trip up and rewire if needed.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 02:49pm
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Quoting: rachelsdad Steve_S you mention AWG 2 v. AWG 2/0 in your system.
In reference to what ?
My FLA setup was all 2/0 from batts through to inverter. When I switched up to the Samlex Inverter I changed all wiring to 4/0 as my longest wire run is 12'. Now with LFP the voltage drops etc are so minimal it's almost moot.
I'm changing the setup to 3x280AH+2x175AH Packs, with JKBMS as shown previously. That as well my 3 24V Utility Packs (Bunkhouse/workshed).
For financial reasons I built everything piece meal as cash came available (small disability pension sux & budgetting care required) and now I am normalizing everything to be common. Also all new docs & guides etc for the future owner are being prepped alongside. Geez, there is gonna be one serious garage sale here this summer... Partly because noone will be taking over the property, I will be listing it for sale next spring so it can be sold before I am planted 6' deep. As such the extras I would have left will also be disposed of, machinery, tools, everything...
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 03:28pm
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Quoting: rachelsdad Here was my ooops moment from last year.
Oh I have 8 x 48v modules that look just like those! Stopped at the electronics recyclers in town, they want $.70 per pound to dispose of the modules. They said to check with the local landfill as they also recycle batteries, weren't sure about lithium.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 04:04pm - Edited by: Steve_S
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LMAO charging to dispose of Lithium Based Batteries... Then they get paid by the recyclers who are scrambling to get batteries to recover the materials. Burning candle from Both Ends... Here you get paid for old batteries hahaha...
Seriously, check around and don't accept lame or stupid excuses.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 07:30pm
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Well, the Chin's batteries arrived well packed and in great shape. All 4 registered 26.3v so I was happy they were balanced. Had some help getting them in the cabin and in place under the stairway. I have lots of cables left over! There were 8 x 48v modules each wired to a dedicated breaker... now just 2 @ 2s2p.
On another note, rachlsdad... do you need a balancer for your modules? I have better than $600 in the balancer and cables. I would sell them for $.50 on the dollar. You can contact me at my handle @Yahoo... be careful of the spelling.
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paulz
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# Posted: 4 May 2022 10:48pm
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Congrats on getting back up! They look like storage totes. Pile some clothes on top, anti theft. 
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2022 08:05am
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Nobadays,
Sorry, have not been on this site for a bit.
Would that accommodate 6 Volt packs?
is that a Creeky make?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2022 08:29am
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Quoting: rachelsdad Would that accommodate 6 Volt packs?
If you are asking if you could take them apart and reassemble as 6v packs... maybe. There were a few pouches on some of the modules that "looked" OK, but I would not have trusted them. Something went haywire in at least one module and it drained/shorted the entire bank. Fortunately no run-away so no heat or fire. They have been recycled.
I bought the balancer and associated cabling from Creeky but the modules were from a couple of different sources..
I'm really happy with the Chins 24v/200ah pre-builts I bought. I have yet to dip very deeply into them, only use the top 30%. The curve on them seems much flatter than the Chevy Volt modules. Might be my imagination!
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2022 08:36am
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Oh.... re-read the post...l you were asking about the balancer... if it would handle 6v packs! Sorry!
Creeky could answer if they would work on your modules. My guess is they probably would as the connectors would be the same, I assume the balancer itself would balance the cells that are connected.
Ask Creeky and make me an offer... they aren't being used here.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2022 03:21am
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Sorry NBD, haven't been around here in a while. I'll ping Creeky.
Thank you!
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2022 08:44am
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No problem!
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2022 08:09am
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Well Creeky never got back to me but I just re-read this thread.
My 4 24 volt Volt batteries did fine all summer but I never hooked up the two additional ones I purchased.
I guess I wasn't all that clear above. I was wondering if your set up would work on the expanded bank of 6 24 volt VOLT batteries, not 6 volt.
I'm a bit leery of adding them but the reality is the original 4 came from 2 different cars so perhaps its ok.
Now I'm thinking the BMS technology has improved and I should be thinking replacing that as well.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2022 10:18am
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Yes I believe it would. The "BMS" I have isn't an actual BMS, what it does is balance the individual cells. From what I gather from Creeky and Steve it does that quite well. The connectors are the same on all the Chevy Volt modules, I don't think the balancer cares if there are 6 cells or 12 cells in a module, it just balances what is there. There is no voltage indication anywhere on the balancer. From what I have seen in pictures... yours, and on Creeky's site the harnesses and balancer look the same 24v or 48v. I would love to see someone use this.
As far as my problem with the modules, who knows exactly what happened. I have to admit it could have been me that caused the issue. Everything was shut down, but, all the breakers were on that feed the inverter. From what I read, my inverter, a Schneider Conext 4048 is not supposed to have a parasitic draw when off. But I suspect it has a tiny draw somewhere. In the past I had shut off those breakers, no problem. Adding two more modules may have contributed but I'm now leaning towards a parasitic draw that drained the modules making them swell. Every module had right at 20v still in them even after swelling up.
If you want that balancer and harnesses let me know. My email is my username at yahoo. Careful... 1 "d" in Nobadays!
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 10:07am
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I did it, I ruined my Chevy Volt modules!
We shut down the cabin yesterday for the annual "thaw" in AZ and I learned why my Chevy Volt modules died.
I have a shut-down sequence that I do as I turn the solar off. As I was powering everything down my "ears" were astounded to note that a -hard shut down- inverter turned off at the inverter on/off button, DOES NOT turn it off! There is still apparently still something powered up in the inverter!
A little background...I have breakers for all my batteries, this way (especially when I had 8 Chevy Volt modules) I can turn them off/on individually so if I want to take one out... or as I've done in the past charge/discharge to balance to the other batteries its an easy task. I HAD NOT TURNED THE BATTERY BREAKERS OFF WHEN I SHUT DOWN LAST YEAR... I FORGOT, MY BAD. But the Schneider Conext 4048 is not supposed to have a parasitic draw when hard off.
This year, I'm shutting down.... push the on/off button on the inverter, it shuts down. I reach up and turn the battery breakers off and I hear a contactor break in the inverter! WHAT! So I turn the batteries back on... yep I can hear the contactor pull in! I'm not positive it is a contactor but it sounds like one.... whatever it is, if the batteries are on, it is powered up...it's doing something, EVEN THOUGH THE INVERTER IS OFF.... there is definitely a parasitic draw in a Schneider Conext 4048.
I've read under charge is one of the things that will cause the Chevy Volt modules to swell, mine were at 21v each, that is ~1.75v per cell, the "knee" for these cells is 3.5v, after that they drop rapidly with 3.1v being the absolute lower limit... below that they will be damaged!
I killed my batteries! Hope this helps!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 10:37am
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Wha-Hoo, sounds like you tracked it down! All good info, at a cost, but maybe your experience will save somebody else.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 10:40am
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Sorry this really sucks for ya man, I feel the grr (insert blue air here) for you as well.
The inverter when "hard off" should have no draw at all, you are quite right and Schneider is a Tier-1 product and I can't see them doing that. Now I don't own their products but it's the first I hear of this and believe me, where I hang around this would be talked about. I can only conclude that the inverter is defective. My Samlex and even the Yiyen Inverter fully power off when "hard off" no draw at all. Now if an inverter is left in a Stand-By eco mode, it will have a small draw and send pulses through the AC to determine if there is a demand for it to power up. Most advanced Inverter/chargers have this capability which can be either programmed and/or activated by the power switch (like a quick press for PwrSave, or long press for Full Off), it varies by brand & model. Is it possible that this may have led to this situation ?
This is one of the reasons that the majority of system designs have a master cutoff between the battery bus & devices, being either a switch or DC Breaker sized for max load potential.
Steve
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 01:46pm
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My thoughts exactly Steve.... I could/can find no where in my Conext 4048 manual that speaks of a parasitic draw, even when turned off.
It was quite noticeable when I flipped the breakers on the batteries, a definite "click" in the inverter. Something in there was still on until the batteries were disconnected. I had always turned off those breakers in the past, I had just forgotten last year.... actually when I went to power on the inverter last year I remember opening the breaker box first and was surprised they were on. When I hit the button to turn on the inverter, nothing happened, that's when I looked at the modules and discovered they were expanding.
What's done is done. I just hope others that use this type of modules will read this and take note! ACTUALLY, anyone! Make sure the batteries are disconnected from the inverter when shutting down... breaker or physically.
And, I hope "rachelsdad" will breathe easier knowing why mine did what they did (I suspect something similar happened to his first set as well).
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2023 01:51pm
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Good reminder. I surely will be wiring in a master cut-off when I set up my new PSW 1000w unit!
Btw, it has a pass-thru for 120vac when hooked up to grid or ,in my case gen input/internal transfer. No integral charger, that would have been quite an increase in price. This way I can choose my own charger amps and profile.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 06:13am
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Your inverter dosnt have a low voltage disconnect? I just push the button on mine every fall to turn it off. But I do have one pannel facing south that's totally vertical so cant get and snow. This means I'm charging all winter.
I have a xantrex freedom x1200. Big silver box. Mine does make a click like a contactor falls out.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 06:48am
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Quoting: Nobadays . I could/can find no where in my Conext 4048 manual that speaks of a parasitic draw, even when turned off
Just because it's not in the manual dosnt mean it dosnt have a draw. Theres capacitors in nearly every inverter.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 09:14am
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Quoting: Brettny Your inverter dosnt have a low voltage disconnect?
It does when it's on... not when hard off. The SCC and Inverter are connected to the System Control Panel. The inverter powers the SCP through an rj11 cable. Once the inverter is shut off, the SCP goes off and there goes the low voltage cutoff. If the low voltage cutoff is stored internally on the inverter, I don't know, but if it is.... it is shut off, no lights on so apparently the "computer board" is off. Just a contactor or something powered up still.
Quoting: Brettny Just because it's not in the manual dosnt mean it dosnt have a draw. Theres capacitors in nearly every inverter.
As Steve said, this is a Tier 1 product/company they should inform the buyer of a parasitic draw if it has one. Oh well, lesson learned.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2023 07:55pm
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Cant you leave your charge controller powered on in the winter?
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2023 08:59am
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Quoting: Brettny Cant you leave your charge controller powered on in the winter?
No, lithium batteries. With no heat in the cabin they would be ruined. If they were equipped with cold temp cut-off, and they are not, they would be off 80%-90% of the time we are gone... it's cold up there!
My shop purposely has FLA batteries so I can keep the system up and running in the winter. During the winter - while we are gone- my shop system powers our Starlink internet giving us access to the security camera.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2023 09:04am
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That makes sence.
Would a battery monitor with shunt meter help? It would have shown you a draw prior to leaving.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2023 12:17pm
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Yeah a battery meter would have likely helped but, water under the bridge not.
I posted what I found mainly for “rachelsdad†and Ontariolakeside as I know they use Volt modules. The first guy was pretty concerned as to whether he should add new modules to his existing because it was first thought that adding on to mine may have caused the problem. He had some do the same thing a couple of years ago.
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Kamn
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2023 09:54am
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Nobadays
I vent been here in a while but I just came across this thread and if you haven't sold the BMS for the volt packs, I would be interested since I still have a bunch of these batteries and not enough BMS. I did get one from Creeky a while back with cables but need more
Cheers
Kameron
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2023 10:29am - Edited by: Nobadays
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Kamn... I do have the balancer and enough harnesses to do 8-10 modules. Unfortunately we just came down to AZ for the rest of the winter.... will return to Colorado around the end of April. I could ship them to you then if that would work.
I'm open to a price, they aren't doing me any good and if someone else can use them that would be great! I have over $500.00 in the balancer and harnesses.... shoot me an offer, it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY I'll refuse it! You pay actual shipping costs.
Dang sure will be cheaper than Creeky would have to sell them for!
If you want that balancer and harnesses let me know. My email is my username at yahoo. Careful... 1 "d" in Nobadays!
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Kamn
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2023 02:43pm
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Nobadays
Got it, will email you in the next day or two.
April isn't an issue for me
Enjoy AZ
Cheers
Kameron
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2023 05:07pm
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Good enough!
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