|
| Author |
Message |
Llucas
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 03:44pm
Reply
Hello! I am new to this and have tried to research and am looking for tips on the next step. We have a small off grid cabin that We would like to install 3 lights in. (One in the living room, one in the kitchen, and track lighting if possible in our hallway.)
I purchased a Renogy 100 Watts 12 Volts Monocrystalline Solar Starter Kit,(comes with the charge controller) and am ordering an inverter next. Installing this part seem straightforward to me- it’s connecting the inverter power to some lights I’d like help with.
Is it possible to easily wire these 3 lights (will use led) without a lot of electrical experience? I’m up to the challenge! Just looking for the simplest way to get the job done. My research has left me a little overwhelmed. Thanks for any tips, beginners websites and advice!
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 04:47pm
Reply
IF you are only powering a few lights it may be best to look for less that operate direct off 12 VDC power. Look into lights used in RV's. Using 12 VDC requires the wire runs to be as short as possible or the use of larger wires to reduce line resistance. Pick where you would want the lights, and try to locate a spot where the battery would be best placed. There is a little more to consider but that would be my starting point.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 04:54pm - Edited by: gcrank1
Reply
Think about when do you need to run lights. Its after the sun goes down. So, there is no solar energy being converted to electricity then.
But when the sun does shine, and the best solar hours are typically between 10am and 2pm IF you have a non-shaded area to put the panel (or 'array'), the Solar Charge Control regulates the array DC power feed into it to a 12v battery. If you do not have good sun between about 9am to 3pm solar is not a good choice.
The inverter is hooked to the battery, not generally straight to the SCC.
All the inverter does is 'invert' the Direct Current, in your case 12v, to (usually) 120vac, like in a home on the 'grid'. If it isnt getting fed anything, like at night, it cant put out anything, it Needs a battery!
There are basically 2 types of inverters:
Cheap- Modified Sine Wave- Do NOT get one of those
A little more $- Pure Sine Wave- The ONLY thing to get
IF you really Need 120vac! More later on this.
So:
Input side is the array to SCC to battery
Output side is battery to inverter to whatever you plug into the inverter (low-end ones have at least one duplex receptacle, like at home, to plug into. I submit that you, with really no experience, need to be using something simple enough to just 'plug in'.
Now the 'more later':
For just lights, and maybe usb ports or cig-lighter ports for light-duty hook ups you can go straight 12v DC, still off the required battery. Thus no 'inverter losses' (it takes some battery power to just run the inverter, many inexpensive ones, even PSW, are only about 85% efficient.
So now:
Suggest you do not order an inverter yet!
Can you still return that Renogy 'starter set'?
How many nights do you want to have elec lights?
|
|
curious
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 06:23pm
Reply
That's it? Three led lights and no plans to use anything else electrical? Skip the inverter then. Just use 12 volt DC led lights, like was said look at RV lights.
But if there is any chance your electrical wants will grow to include things that need 120 VAC, then stop and plan the system now.
Return the Renogy kit if you can. They write better ad copy than making good reliable equipment. Renogy is cheap starter stuff that will often need replacing because something quit working.
Somebody here stated, in another thread recently, that the best advice they ever got about going solar was something like this... if you don't want to be tinkering, adjusting, replacing constantly, don't buy cheap equipment. First, make an honest estimate of power requirements, and multiply the watt-hours by 1.5. Then buy name-brand quality equipment.
I agree wholeheartedly.
If you need or want 120 VAC devices at some future date you should try to figure that out now. If you install 120 VAC wiring it should be done right to be safe. That is entirely possible with some research and study on your part. Don't rush the electrical part of the project.
|
|
Llucas
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 07:46pm - Edited by: Llucas
Reply
Thanks for your replies! I forgot to add I would be connecting to a battery of course.
We are keeping it simple our cabin- so we won’t need a lot of power. We also have a generator to charge power tools. We may spend more time there when we retire, but that’s at least 10 years away. For now it’s long weekends and a few weeks every summer.
Thanks for all your advice!! Rv lights seem to be the easiet for now.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 07:47pm
Reply
There is a smart way to 'ease into it' and it doesnt start with buying solar stuff, it starts with determining your:
1) needs
2) wants
3) in a perfect world
Then you discard #3 right off (lol, because that is grid)
Fwiw
When we started in 1983 I had simple needs and wants, mostly lights (to be better than basic kero wick lamps) and an am/fm radio. I used 3 std cheap house light fixtures with pull chains wired with 12ga romex and RV 'Edison base' 12vdc bulbs and one duplex 20a outlet. This was powered by one 12v 100ah 'marine deep cycle' battery. I had NO idea that I shouldnt use more than 50ah out of that! (kills em) I ran lights until they were as dim as the kero lamps then turn off and ran the lamps. Simple calc on those old RV incandescent bulbs, a 50Watt bulb draws more than 4 Amps per hour, that depletes a battery pretty quick of long dark nights. I switched to 25W bulbs and we typically only used one at a time. I saved the 50W for when I would have to work on something and needed very good light.
Ah, the good old days....NOT. That battery would barely last 2 nights if we were careful. But I did it for years, taking it home to recharge, or if we stayed long down to my dad's. For a good long time I had 2 bats, one to be charging and 1 in use, that worked out pretty well.
Now we have LED light bulbs! Waayyy better/brighter light at such a low amps draw that I hardly have to be concerned with it. My current 9w leds draw less than 1 amp. When I was still doing 12v lights a couple years ago I was using inexpensive MR16 led lights and can still recommend them.
Then I changed to all 120vac because I have enough power to drive the inverter.
So, you see you can have quiet electric (no gen running) if your needs and wants are simple and you are willing to carry a battery home and back.
You can also use any of the 12vdc led lights for the 'truck boyz', lots available at auto-parts and even big-box stores.
The next Big game changer for us was getting a Champion 1700/2000W Inverter/Gen. Weighs about like a loaded med suitcase (40ish#), super quiet and fuel efficient. I can run power tools, small microwave, etc at will.
So, you will need a battery anyway no matter what if you dont run a gen whenever you want lights but a little genny is mighty sweet.
Battery:
For you to start out on the low-buck side and go through the learning curve I would normally suggest you buy a 12v 100ish ah 'marine' Deep Cycle (NOT marine 'Starting') battery. But nowadays there are some All In One (AIO) portable power packs that you should be aware of and look at.
After you use the battery/aio/and maybe add an inv/gen you can 'grow into' charging with solar. It complicates things and eats money and time pretty quick.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 07:50pm - Edited by: gcrank1
Reply
Oh, you posted while I was writing a book.....
Whenever you run the gen have an automotive battery charger, say a 20amp, going hooked to the cabin battery to keep it topped up. Dont use the piddly 12vdc output on the gen, it doesnt do much.
What kind of battery do you have?
How old? Getting near to replacement?
Fwiw, from my lengthy tale you see I started with marine (well, really started with an old car battery!) in 1983ish. I just this year bought into LFP; again, A Game Changer! My 100ah weighs only about 30# and has easy 2x the power of the lead acid marine bat.
|
|
Llucas
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Mar 2022 07:58pm
Reply
Thank you so much!
|
|
|
Grizzlyman
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Mar 2022 07:16am - Edited by: Grizzlyman
Reply
Llucas
I have 9 led lights, a ceiling fan, and a few usb outlets in my cabin- all 12v run off of 2 solar panels and a 12 v battery. It doesn’t have to be complicated and it works great. The panel is on the roof.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Mar 2022 10:49am
Reply
Quoting: Llucas We are keeping it simple our cabin
That's what I said... 
I started out with the HF kit, panels, a charge controller, USB ports and two 12V led lights with cords (and a third port), usually on sale for $150. I still have it to charge my tractor batteries, been completely reliable.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Mar 2022 11:10am
Reply
The simplest cheapest solar lighting I have seen (and have as backup) is available on Amazon as singles or multiple packs. I bought the 3 pack.
They are an Edison looking bulb with a usb port and cord to a small solar panel. Each 'bulb' has an integral hook, just unplug the cord from the bulb, push the button and you have a portable light to carry and hang where you want. They light is soft, but I think it is superior to the kero wick lamps, and if you want more lumens use 2 of them.
There is quite a lot of cord from the solar panel so you can mount it outside. I just have mine in a south facing window and it works fine.
The usb cord can also power other usb devices and other usb chargers can charge the bulbs.
It doesnt get much easier.
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Mar 2022 01:04pm
Reply
Ok.. I guess I will muddy the waters a little bit here..
Have you looked into a "Power Station"? Its a relatively new option that fits small needs quite well.
Basically its a LiFePO4 or LIPO battery in a box with an inverter, charger and solar controller all rolled into one. They come in all different sizes and configurations (and prices of course). They are designed to be used for a period and then hooked up to power to be recharged (like at the end of a weekend). You can add solar panels to them as a way to charge or extend the charge (nothing else but a bare panel required as the controller is built in).
We have a 240Wh one that we have been using as temporary power during out build. Its enough to run all our lights, coffee grinder and laptops for the weekend. Unfortunately its a little too small to run a fan all weekend as well, so we just added a second one.
Of course it can't run tools or high draw devices, but for lighting and smaller things its great (there are units that can run much more). It also saves you all the messing about trying to learn and build a DIY solar system (unless you are looking forward to that).
Just another option to think about.
|
|
zorro
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Mar 2022 09:00am
Reply
If it is simply lights that you want, these are pretty easy and straightforward - I use them in a couple of large sheds
Can also plug into a generator to charge if the sun is not out
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y1PQX4J/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B07Y1PQX4J&pd_rd_w= kPld0&pf_rd_p=0c758152-61cd-452f-97a6-17f070f654b8&pd_rd_wg=7mUtD&pf_rd_r=Y3Y7RX7CR79 754A6CZKA&pd_rd_r=6bfc9221-0276-4ed3-86a3-b3232e2ef2f6&s=hi&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlm aWVyPUEyT0tWMTI0N1FPVFU0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzk4MTc4MU5CQVRGRFoyOFM0SSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZ ElkPUEwNjE2NTY3MUpXS1VYQ1NQTk00NiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcm VjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1
|
|
zorro
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Mar 2022 09:03am
Reply
If it is simply some internal solar lights, you will not get much easier than these
Can also be plugged into a generator to charge if the sun has not been out for long
https://www.amazon.com/YINGHAO-Upgraded-Lighting-Controller-Chargers/dp/B07Y1PQX4J/re f=dp_prsubs_1?pd_rd_i=B07Y1PQX4J&psc=1
|
|
Llucas
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 11:35am
Reply
Thank you so much for all your advice!!!!
|
|
lindsaylucas
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 12:37pm - Edited by: lindsaylucas
Reply
paulz
Thanks paulz!
That sounds like how I will start out. Hook up the controller to the battery, then what did you use to for the usb ports? I was thinking of learning to wire in something like this.
https://www.amazon.ca/MICTUNING-12V-24V-Charger-Voltmeter-Cigarette/dp/B083TQMZYX/ref =asc_df_B083TQMZYX/?tag=smacab-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=418592605340&hvpos=&hvne tw=g&hvrand=9882421587424234634&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hv locphy=1001970&hvtargid=pla-885616473022&psc=1
|
|
lindsaylucas
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 12:48pm
Reply
Quoting: Grizzlyman I have 9 led lights, a ceiling fan, and a few usb outlets in my cabin- all 12v run off of 2 solar panels and a 12 v battery. It doesn’t have to be complicated and it works great. The panel is on the roof.
That sounds like exactly what we want to do. Do you have photos posted here anywhere I could check it out!? Thanks!
|
|
lindsaylucas
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 12:55pm
Reply
something like this jackery solar power station is looking like lessening the chances of me electrocuting myself 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07D29QNMJ/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=AZF6YB7UVA7OU&th=1
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 02:28pm
Reply
Quoting: lindsaylucas something like this jackery solar power station is looking like lessening the chances of me electrocuting myself
Jackery are "ok" units. The one you picked is pure sine wave which is good.
Since you look like you are in Canada, here is a better deal (MAKE SURE TO CLIP THE COUPON). I have this station and its been great. It also has LiFePO4 batteries which should have a much longer life.
https://www.amazon.ca/CTECHi-Generator-Portable-Recharge-Emergency/dp/B09LD16WP6/ref= sr_1_5?keywords=ctechi+portable+power+station&qid=1646940445&sprefix=ctechi%2Caps%2C2 00&sr=8-5
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 03:20pm
Reply
Yes!
Only get one with LiFePO4 batteries
Many more discharge/charge cycles for your dollars!
|
|
lindsaylucas
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Mar 2022 03:35pm
Reply
Thank you so much! I really appreciate all your help and suggestions!
|
|
LS1
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Mar 2022 02:50pm - Edited by: LS1
Reply
Don't be discouraged, you don't need to spend a fortune on solar, unless it is for more than a weekend place. I bought the 100w Renogy kit 7 years ago along with a Costco group 27 marine battery and a cheap tripp lite 150w inverter. The system is still going strong after all those years. I use LED lights, usb chargers and a small fan. I find it is much easier and cheaper to get regular 120v stuff than find 12v ones, plus you can make long runs of 120v wiring without heavy gauge wire. Plus being an inexpensive setup I won't be upset if it ended up disappearing from my cabin.
|
|
DryCreek
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Mar 2022 09:07am
Reply
Just FWIW, compare the Amazon reviews for the 'CTECHi' unit with, say, the corresponding Jackery.
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Mar 2022 05:55pm
Reply
I actualy started the process of looking for a lithium portable solar generator last week. So far the only one I have seen that gives you the ability to add more battery is the ecoflow river.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Mar 2022 06:02pm - Edited by: gcrank1
Reply
Diy aint that hard.
LFP battery, size (AH's you want)
Ac bat charger for when you have 'shore power'
Array- # of panels you want, 2 wires to SCC
From SCC to Bat- 2 wires
From Bat to Inv- 2 wires
For 12vdc off Bat- 2 wires
Plug into Inv outlet for 120vac, have an ext cord too
Most Inv's have USB ports now
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Mar 2022 04:56am
Reply
Your right DIY isnt that hard..but you add all that stuff to a single handed box is takes away alot of the portability of the unit. "Just a few lights" would be a power pack I would just bring back and forth.
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Mar 2022 04:57am
Reply
Ecoflow has a sale on there ecoflow river model. It's more capable than the jackery and costs less. It also has the ability to double the battery bank size at a later time. It's a battery you buy separate and bolt to the bottom.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09HGYTDTZ/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A2G2DKD53WX 1O2&psc=1
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Mar 2022 10:38am
Reply
I gave pretty much the Full Monty of a mini-system in that post. It could be made to fit a milk crate or bigger plastic tool box from Walmart, except the 'roll-up' or light-weight panels. Over at diysolarforum.com Will P. has a milk-crate build if somebody wants 'instructions'.
For just a few lights and usb/cig-ltr ports I have used the 'battery of my choice', a clip on cig-ltr multi port and a plug in usb adapter. Now cig-ltr ports c/w usb are available.
For a 'micro' Ive thought about a large size lithium jump-pac; they already have the ports too.
But I could make a plastic Ammo Can with a small LFP and use my various clip on stuff too.
|
|
|
