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paulz
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2022 10:58am
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Guess I should at least see what firmware I have, can I see that via the MT50 or do I need to connect to Windows and download their software? If so, I need a USB to RS cable?
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travellerw
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2022 11:10am
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I think you can see you firmware version in the "Meter Parameters" screen on the MT50.
Connecting to a computer requires a USB-RS485 cable. It used to be required to update the firmware (you could only get updated firmware from contacting support). I see they have a WIFI bridge these days. I wonder if you can update the firmware with that?
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paulz
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2022 11:27am - Edited by: paulz
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I'll check the MT50, I had to come back to the city yesterday for a college class, going back tomorrow after my wife watches the Super Bowl today, she likes men in tight uniforms apparently. Hated to leave the cabin, it's like spring out there. Another drought here we come..
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2022 03:25pm
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Fwiw
Seems I remember coming across a number of comments regarding Renogy customer support being basically non-existent recently.
Without some sort of solar equipage 'clearing agency' (like UL is?) it can be a 'pays yer money and takes yer chances' buying stuff. And there seems to be clones of clones on Amazon, etc.
Online research is your friend.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2022 04:07pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 'pays yer money and takes yer chances' buying stuff. And there seems to be clones of clones on Amazon, etc. Online research is your friend.
Sometimes it pays to buy known brands. Victron, Mastervolt, Outback, Morningstar all have great support (but you pay for it).
I will most likely end up with 2 Victron controllers.
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paulz
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2022 09:38pm
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OK via the EPever MT50 my firmware is V02.14+V07.2, if that's the firmware. I tried searching online, nothing. There is rumor on the DIY forum of new firmware with a lithium option, that would be nice. Also said you have to email them to get it? Sounds odd. Anyway I'm going to order a patch cable for the laptop.
Thanks Trav for mentioning this.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2022 10:22pm
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Quoting: paulz OK via the EPever MT50 my firmware is V02.14+V07.2, if that's the firmware.
I'm not %100 sure, but I think the first number is the hardware revision and the second number is the firmware.
I was interested about the firmware, so I went looking yesterday (even the 7 year old download links I had). I can't find anywhere you can download it from. I also can't find any documentation on updating it (via bluetooth or WIFI). So I'm sure you need to contact support to get it.
Glad to help.. If you do get a hold of the firmware, post back here (and diy solar forum). It might help someone else.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2022 06:37pm
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Ok.. For anyone following.. I have done some digging and came up with this information!
Renogy Rover = SRNE Solar.
It looks like Renogy contracted SRNE to build the Rover line. SRNE still sells their own brand of controllers that appear to have the same build and components internally. Its not clear whether Renogy modified the firmware, but the protocol used on the RS port is identical, so I doubt it.
So that brings up another note. Epever uses the exact same protocol on its RS port (different wiring). Which leads me to believe that SRNE was contracted to at least design those controllers (or maybe vice versa).
Design or build is not everything though. The components speced and installed make ALL the difference. So even though one company may be designing or building them, each brand might be specing different components. The only way to tell would be to tear each one down. I watched a bunch of teardowns of both and frankly the build quality looks pretty much the same.
IDK... I think they are probably pretty comparable. What I do like is the maker community has spent the time to reverse engineer the protocol and there is a good infrastructure to build monitoring solutions. Everything from local monitoring using non proprietary software, to uploading the stats to the cloud for long term trends.
What I don't like is that none of these brands provide easy ways to update the firmware. You have to contact support and "might" be provided new firmware. The more mainstream brands provide ways to keep the firmware up to date as bugs and enhancements are addressed.
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paulz
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2022 06:19am
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Quoting: travellerw Glad to help.. If you do get a hold of the firmware, post back here (and diy solar forum). It might help someone else.
I wrote to Epever for BN firmware, here is the reply. Pretty sure it was a BN series in the video?
Hi Paul,
Unfortunately, this series doesn't support update the firmware​.
​
Sorry for any inconvenience and have a wonderful day!
Best Regards
Bianca Chen
EPEVER Support
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2022 08:45am
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I also have a BN series. I mostly got this one for the 150v input. It will give me the ability to series 3 of my pannels.
What should I be looking for in issues with this BN series? I havent seen any. I left it on last I was there 3 months ago.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2022 10:05am
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Quoting: Brettny What should I be looking for in issues with this BN series? I havent seen any. I left it on last I was there 3 months ago.
If you watch the videos I posted above, he details the issue much better than I could.
What makes the particular issue so frustrating is that you won't notice it unless you are monitoring for it. It really only happens during dynamic load situations (you have a large intermittent power draw, i.e. toaster or coffee pot, ect). The controller will hunt for the maximum power point. It seems if it hunts too long, it reboots. Of course while its doing this, it is throwing power away that could otherwise be harvested.
It also happens during shady situations. As shade passes over the panels, the controller can't find the MPP quickly during the shady period or once the panels are in full sun again. All this leads to quite a bit of wasted energy that could have been harvested, but instead was lost.
Now with saying all that.. These issues are really only a big problem in a full time off-grid situation. Where are you are trying to squeeze every watt out of the system. In a cabin situation where you are just there for a weekend, then the system has all week to catch up, its probably not a big issue.
Also, I think I was wrong about the firmware numbers on the MT50. I actually think the first number is the firmware number. That would mean that paulz has Firmware 2.14, which may have the bug fixed. The firmware I had that definitely had the bug was 2.05
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paulz
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2022 05:01pm
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I think I'm noticing some of this weirdness you're talking about. Today, with my bank lower than yesterday (about 3.290 per cell), I was only getting about a 2 amp charge, with the MT50 showing 18 volts at the panels. I disconnected the panels briefly, reconnected, now it's showing 75 volt at the panels and 5 amp charge. All this within a 5 minute span, no change in sunlight.
What about Epever saying no firmware for the BN series, did you ever update a BN?
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travellerw
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2022 09:22pm
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Quoting: paulz What about Epever saying no firmware for the BN series, did you ever update a BN?
I definitely did update my all 3 of my BN controllers. That is basically the response I got in the end. At first they were working with me, providing new firmware. Then all of a sudden they just said the problem could not be fixed and there would be no more firmware.
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paulz
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2022 03:12am - Edited by: paulz
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Hmm that's a shame. I'll be monitoring mine more closely.
In other news, while I was hanging around watching my friend mill wood the other day I tilted this old spare array up and switched from 2x6 to 6x2, following your advice that parallel would work better in shade. And it appears too, though I need to play with it a little more. These panels are ancient, I was only getting about 1 amp in this photo.
Another thing I tried, since the panel voltage was now under 100 (about 38, down from 115), was a spare Renogy Rover CC, in place of the second BN in the shop. The Rover only showed about half an amp, so I put my DVM inline to the battery, on both controllers, and sure enough the BN delivered more current. At those small values and quickly changing sunlight it's hard to know for certain without several test sessions, which I may do.
I don't need much charging down at the shop, there is no continuous draw and plenty of time to charge.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2022 06:12am
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Quoting: travellerw What makes the particular issue so frustrating is that you won't notice it unless you are monitoring for it. It really only happens during dynamic load situations (you have a large intermittent power draw, i.e. toaster or coffee pot, ect). The controller will hunt for the maximum power point. It seems if it hunts too long, it reboots. Of course while its doing this, it is throwing power away that could otherwise be harvested
O that's all? I only run a few lights, a baby monitor and just before we leave I run a shop vac.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2022 06:31am
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I watched the video. I'm a bit confused about the breaker flipping and what hes trying to show in the first half of the video. As for the system reboot, I have watched mine prety regularly (some times every 10min) and have never seen it reboot like that. Granted my BN is a 40a and 2019 model.
I also think hes expecting 100% of the pannel output to be the CC output and that just dosnt happen. I loose roughly 11w through the CC at 276w pannel output. I havent done the calculations on his video to see how much hes loosing through his CC.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2022 12:10pm
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Quoting: paulz I was only getting about a 2 amp charge, with the MT50 showing 18 volts at the panels. I disconnected the panels briefly, reconnected, now it's showing 75 volt at the panels and 5 amp charge.
That is the exactly one of the issues! If I noticed the controller being "lazy" on our boat, I used to flip the switch on the solar input. Off for 5 seconds, then back on.
Quoting: Brettny I watched the video. I'm a bit confused about the breaker flipping and what hes trying to show in the first half of the video.
He is showing the gain you are getting from the MPPT algorithm vs panels directly connected (remember he is using true 12V panels for this test). Its important to note that the gain is MUCH better if your panels are cooler. He then shows the gain with the panels in series to show how it handles the higher input voltages (gain should be better). This is where it doesn't do so well. It seeks a long time and never really finds the MPP with a load on the battery (voltage sinks). Essentially the CC does fine with an unloaded battery, but once you put a load and cause the battery voltage to sink, the CC algorithm struggles. Of course there is also the "lazy" bug mentioned above (where it keeps the panel input voltage low and you get 1/2 the power). This seems to happen in shady conditions. That bug "self corrects" once it becomes dark and the panels drop to 0 output. The next day the controller usually behaves.
All this has reminded me of the headaches I had. At this point I will steer clear of EPEver. Sure Victron is twice the price, but I really think you get twice the product. The fact that they keep the firmware up to date and are constantly tweaking it to get the most power is worth it to me. Not to mention a 5 year no argument warranty!
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2022 07:56pm - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: travellerw That is the exactly one of the issues! If I noticed the controller being "lazy" on our boat, I used to flip the switch on the solar input. Off for 5 seconds, then back on.
I duplicated the issue again today, with (poor) photos. MT50 was reading 14.4V .08A. Disconnected one solar cable from the BN, counted to 10, put it back. 86V, 5.9A at to the batts (batt voltage also jumped from 13.2 to 13.5). Very disappointing. What I will do next is put an ammeter in the line to verify the difference.
I have noticed unusual charging differences before but figured it was clouds, tree shade, bad connections..
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Brettny
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2022 08:27am
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If you guys have any BN series CC you dont want any more il pay for them.
Paul if you turn the flash off and press the right orange button the camera should take better pics.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2022 10:11am - Edited by: paulz
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I'm not ready to bail yet without further testing but it sure is disappointing. If there is a way to hack around the problem I'm seeing I'll try that first, but I'm sure not going to toggle the solar cable every time the shading changes.
Hard to believe as well regarded as these are for lower priced CCs this problem isn't widely reported, and that Epever can't fix the software. I'll be emailing them again after further testing and documenting, but at Trav said it will likely lead nowhere.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2022 11:15am
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Quoting: paulz I'm not ready to bail yet without further testing but it sure is disappointing. If there is a way to hack around the problem I'm seeing I'll try that first, but I'm sure not going to toggle the solar cable every time the shading changes.
Paul, how old is your controller?
I just find it strange that these controllers are well regarded when the bugs are easy to spot and were documented over 7 years ago. Either people really aren't paying attention or Epever did actually fix it at one point. Although I did have an Epever AN series it was only for backup and I never used it. I think these bugs don't exist in the AN line (which is WAY more common because of the screen and no need for the MT50). This might be why they are still regarded as OK.
Quoting: Brettny If you guys have any BN series CC you dont want any more il pay for them.
Oh man.. I think that would be a mistake to buy more of them. Seriously the bug Paul listed is like loosing 1/2 your solar array. Crazy to pay for panels that aren't getting used properly. The only solution I ever found was to switch the solar input off and then on again.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2022 11:34am
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As to controllers for my system. I actually decided I would try 1 Renogy Rover and 1 Victron. This will give me the opportunity to hook both up in an identical way (parallel with 2 panels each) and get some trends once the system is up and running. It will show if the Victron really does harvest more energy over time. It should be a pretty valid test as the panels will be side by side in an open field with an equal clear view of the sky. Shading should not be an issue.
I will probably use a Pi or Arduino to collect data from the Rover.
Since Victron supports the open source community, I have quite a few options, but I have been looking for an excuse to play with Venus OS on a Pi. If you haven't seen this solution, its pretty darn cool. Victron allows you to create a home grown version of their Venus GX monitor hardware. You can then keep the data local, or upload to their cloud and monitor it anywhere.
(I may purchase a Epever AN series later on and switch the Rover out to see how it compares against the Victron).
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2022 12:05pm - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: travellerw Paul, how old is your controller?
I have two, one at the cabin, one in the shop, both 40A, which makes it all the more frustrating. Don't know the age, bought one new online about a year or two ago, other was new from a local guy that never got his system off the ground, probably 4-5 years. As I mentioned I have noticed this before on both, just chalked it up to shade or connections. Both are the same firmware:
BN - V2.14+V07.2
MT50 - V02.16+V01.60
I'm back in the city today, will be first thing on the priority list in a day or two.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 02:22pm
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Quoting: travellerw Connecting to a computer requires a USB-RS485 cable.
I received the cable to connect the Epever BN to Windows and downloaded the software. And, par for the course, I'm stuck in connectivity hell. I connected the cable, to both, got an unable to download driver message. When I plug the cable in, XR21B1411 pops up in Device Manager, some kind of transmit receive thingy. So I found the driver for that online, downloaded and installed. Now it shows up on COM5. But the Epever software says COM5 occupied by other software. And no info from the CC is showing up. So I'm stuck..
Remember going through any of this trav?
On the bright side the CC seems to be behaving itself lately.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 04:42pm
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Oh ya.. It was a PIA and the software looks like it was written as a high school project.
Here is some good instructions
https://www.diyrenewable.com/blog/post/how-to-use-the-epever-pc-software-for-charge-c ontrollers/
I remember this being KEY!
In the left menu, click Ports, then double-click on xxxxxxx USB UART (COM3). Select the Port Settings tab, and make sure that the RS-485 checkbox is checked. If not, check the box and press OK to close the device window.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 06:08pm
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Well, I know what scc to stay away from.....
Good Luck Paul! Yer a better man than I for going after it.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 10:41pm
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Quoting: travellerw Oh ya.. It was a PIA
Whew, got that right! Well I finally got it working after two hours of farting around. That's it for me tonight, tomorrow I get to explore all the monitoring and graphs and stuff.
Thanks Trav!
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