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groingo
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2022 01:32pm - Edited by: groingo
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With the advent of lower power requirements on most electrical items such as lighting, refrigeration and cooling my power requirement for living dropped to under a 0.55 kwh a day, then came Lithium Ion batteries which did twice the work, charge much faster with none of the flooded headaches so life was good until I bought my Leaf 5 years ago which I had planned to charge off grid....unfortunately to do that would cost 30 to 40 thousand dollars for much more solar, mainly the batteries and much larger 48 volt system, inverter, wiring etc making payback a laughable fantasy while for a thousand dollars I hooked back up to the grid and my solar became little more than a trickle charger to keep my battery up when grid power goes out (9 + times a year) which if it extends for over a day or two I can fire up one of my three generators of which the little Powerhouse 500 watter runs everything for 12 hours on a quart of gas.
Being back on the grid with Puget Sound Energy monthly averages 25 to 35 dollars a month for everything including
car charging and I am still the lowest power user out of 4 million PSE customers three years running.
Biting the bullet and getting my power from the Great Satan (PSE) I became a member of their citizen advisory board
to advise on benefits of using rewables and have made some encouraging progress now pushing for off peak rates especially with PSE showing record high profits....so I don't feel like I sold out completely and maybe part of a larger solution rather than staying an off grid hermit!
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paulz
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2022 02:21pm
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So how much for your solar stuff? 
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2022 02:32pm
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If you can hook to the grid it's almost always cheaper.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2022 03:30pm
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Quoting: groingo 25 to 35 dollars a month for everything including car charging and I am still the lowest power user out of 4 million PSE customers three years running.
Damn.. I only wish.. Our bill is $112 in just "transmission fees".. That's right, $112 even if draw absolutely no power that month!
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2022 05:04pm - Edited by: groingo
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It's just a small 600 watt Renogy / HSTQ with 30 amp Epever MTTP controller panels still pull like day they were made which was like $1300.00 then but the Battleborn battery I bought last year cost almost as much as the whole solar system $799.00.
Learned after all this time I had overpaneled for the controller but it did fine, now things have changed and I just really don't need it anymore.
Giving it to a neighbor.
My monthly hookup fee for grid is $7.49 for using nothing which really gripes me!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2022 06:14pm
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You have a bargain there going grid! And no 'sell out' at all in my thinking, you had already done the right work in energy conservation and deliberate living.
For that $1k and the low monthly Id be doing it in a phone call.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 12:16am
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I thought my bill was high for the fixed fees at $40/month! The utilities are running scared of solar and other alternative power and are really trying to shut it down where possible. The fixed fees certainly make installation of solar (and other similar) less attractive financially.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 07:59am
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Quoting: gcrank1 And no 'sell out' at all in my thinking, you had already done the right work in energy conservation and deliberate living. For that $1k and the low monthly Id be doing it in a phone call.
I know where he lives (close to me) and we do have hydroelectric power here, lots of it, so technically, he is still green even on the grid.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 08:49am
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Geez over 100 in just fees..that changes things. Our fees are $24 month.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 01:05pm
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Quoting: Brettny Geez over 100 in just fees..that changes things. Our fees are $24 month.
Its crazy, I know.. We live in a huge area, with a harsh climate, but we are getting the shaft. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm pretty sure some politicians are getting some great kickbacks.
It makes installing a solar solution very difficult to ever get payback. You need to generate enough power to not only cover your usage, but pay those fees every month.... or be completely disconnected from the grid. You need a GIANT system for that..
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 01:38pm
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Giant, yeah, or at least way bigger than I want to buy, maintain/support. My simple math for just a few mod-cons are 12v, 10amp/120w draw average over 24 hrs is 2880w. That is more than 200ah 'usable' of bat-bank, min. of 400ah of fla or 200ah of lfp (easy to price that out) and all the array, scc, wire, fuses, etc to keep it properly charged.
That for 'Just One Day' with a measly 10amp/120watt per hour average draw. Want 3 days autonomy, triple it.
Want more capability/capacity per day? How much do you want/need to spend?
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 02:06pm - Edited by: travellerw
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So for some more context.. We have a quote to bring power to our cabin (actually just the property line, the last 200 yards is our problem). Its around $18K. Then those fees would be on top every month (actually its a different county so the fees are about $85/month plus usage. The $112 is for our place in the city).
So for our cabin it makes complete sense to go off grid with solar. If I'm careful with shopping I can build a 2000W array, 400ah LFP system with an inverter for about $3500. Cooking and hot water will be done on propane. So that should be way more power than we ever need for just our weekends out there.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 02:19pm
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I am factoring that the 'monthly & rates' will double, maybe within 5 years, def within 10, but still, your calc is valid.
One other point, the 'off-grid' solutions all require the money up front. The grid has an initial cost in but the recurring monthly, even if increasing, is over time. A little easier to swallow for many than spending it all, or financing up front.
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groingo
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 05:19pm
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I would be happily completely off grid if not for my electric car which would cost a ton of money for solar, inverters and especially the battery capacity and then there is the real kicker my climate which in winter is typically rainy and short days plus the neighbors trees that pull the plug on the whole car recharge off grid fantasy.
Now I'm depressed, think I'll catch a mole and release it in the neighbors yard.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 07:26pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 am factoring that the 'monthly & rates' will double, maybe within 5 years, def within 10, but still, your calc is valid. One other
Every power company is different but I have loved here for 11yrs and the base price has only changed a few dollars. Cost per KW has changed though. I believe we are paying 20c per KW. When I moved in it was closer to 12c
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 08:10pm
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Quoting: travellerw Our bill is $112 in just "transmission fees"
where is this?
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 10:22pm - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: ICC where is this?
AB, Canada!
Its not just transmission fees. There is service fees, line fees and a few other things.. but yes they add up to that.
Our KW prices are pretty cheap though 0.04-0.06/KWh (edit. I'm locked in at 0.0689 but it looks like it has risen to 0.10 in 2021)
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2022 11:32pm - Edited by: ICC
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That is a lot. $112 Canadian. = about $90 US today. Still a lot. The converted currency price varies daily.
0.0689 CAD$ = 0.055 USD$ which is a real bargain. Here in NM IF I was grid-connected I would be looking at about 0.1033 USD$ per kWh on the first 450 kWh per month. The next 450 kWh per month are about 0.015 and anything over that is almost 0.018 USD$.
The fee for being connected is set at $7.11 USD which is about 8.88 CAD$
That low monthly meter fee, plus a couple of dollars of misc fees is less than 10 USD$ a month (12.50 CAD$). That fee is the same for someone buying all their power from the power company or someone who has solar panels and is grid-tied, using the grid as a battery bank. The grid-tied home here gets a free battery bank in other words.
That is unfair in my view. Of course, you can say I am biased because I own a good-sized LFP battery bank of prismatic cells. If I was closer to the power grid I would be signed up as a customer too and use the grid as my battery at virtually no real cost to me. Perhaps have a small battery bank that could ensure the fridge continues to run and the furnace can work to still provide heat if the grid goes down. A friend in town tells me his power is seldom down and usually only for a few hours. Only once last year.
The power company here is extremely reliable. In town, everything is underground except for the older areas. Anything new built since the late 70's is underground. That is one reason my connection estimate was as high as it was as several miles of that would have been buried in rocky terrain. A side benifit to me is that the excessive burial fees keep most people close to town, close to the existing power infrastructure. Of course, the underground lines are also impervious to falling trees and ice storms.
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Shadyacres
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2022 06:57am
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I'm in central PA and my pole shed electric bill was something like 32 dollars my first month which actual electric use was $ 1.49.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2022 10:58am
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So for a little over a dollar a day you have all the power you need at any time for the shed, pretty good deal.
Sometimes the itemized billing does us no favor......
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2022 05:42pm
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I called National Grid to get an idea of cost to run power to my island. The engineering fee was close to $4,000. Then, I'd have to get the owner of the closest mainland shoreline to agree to put a pole and ground mounted transformer on their shore...uh..no!
Then, the cost to run the line underwater, the cost of a pole and the cost of another transformer...plus whatever. Then I get the pleasure of a monthly bill even when not there.
For me it was a no brainer, well under $6,000 with three sets of batteries, (original FLA, 1st set of lithiums I discharged by mistake to zero and the third set).
but I wouldn't squawk at grid power if I could get the hook up for a nominal fee
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